Avodah Mailing List

Volume 28: Number 81

Tue, 24 May 2011

• 1. standard opinion? (Saul.Z.New...@kp.org)
• 2. Re: standard opinion? (Micha Berger)
• 3. Re: paskening by Nevuah (Micha Berger)
• 4. genevas daas (Eli Turkel)
• 5. Re: Geneivas Da'as (T6...@aol.com)
• 6. Upsherin (Prof. Levine)
• 7. Re: standard opinion? (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 8. Re: Geneivas Da'as (Micha Berger)
• 9. Sevara Rules (Meir Rabi)
• 10. Re: Shaila's to be asked on making Aliya (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 11. army exemption (Saul.Z.New...@kp.org)
• 12. Re: Shaila's to be asked on making Aliya (Allan Engel)
• 13. Cooking on Yom Tov: A Halachic Analysis (Prof. Levine)
• 14. The Anisakis Worm Rears its Ugly Head Once More (5TJN) (Prof. Levine)

a review  of the new Dialogue Journal includes this observation [of r 
meiselman's article]

Furthermore, RMM claims there IS Psak when it comes to Hashkofo, and we 
need to follow the majority 

---is this  an to  agreed point?  is there any hope for those who believe 
in such hashkafically assur entities as an old universe or a secular 
Medina?


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On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 08:30:18AM -0700, Saul.Z.New...@kp.org wrote:
: a review  of the new Dialogue Journal includes this observation [of r 
: meiselman's article]

: Furthermore, RMM claims there IS Psak when it comes to Hashkofo, and we 
: need to follow the majority 

RYGB writes about R' Meiselman's article:
        Rabbi Meiselman asserts ex cathedra that there is psak in
        Hashkafa. WADR, he is not (nor is anyone in this generation) of
        a stature to make such statements. Moreover, his critique of R'
        Aryeh Kaplan is fatally flawed by his omission of the Ramban,
        the Rabbeinu Bachya, and Reb Tzadok HaKohen of Lublin - not to
        mention the Tiferes Yisroel - who are all in accordance with
        the Sefer HaTemunah, which is in sync with R' Yitzchok d'min
        Akko. In short, an inadequate and insufficient essay.

        May 22, 2011 6:28 PM

IOW, R Meiselman writes about changing our views due to scientific
evidence. I don't think that's factually accurate, since it denies
the numerous baalei mesorah (and I think it's an overwhelming rov) who
taught of an old universe back when scientific theory was that there
was no beginning at all.

Returning to RSZN:
: is this  an to  agreed point?  is there any hope for those who believe 
: in such hashkafically assur entities as an old universe or a secular 
: Medina?

RGStudent convinced me a long while back that there is an overlap between
halakhah and hashkafah and in those areas -- and only those areas --
pesaq is a meaningful concept. As I wrote here numerous times in the past,
there are pesaqim about stam yeinam or geirus which revolve around what
the person believes (and, tangentially to this discussion, why). Thus,
someone could pasqen that you can't drink wine handled by someone who
has such-n-such a belief about mashiach.

However, that's not R' Meiselman's claim. IOW, he doesn't show how
halakhah developed from previous pesaqim about stam yeinam to excluding
those who believed in an old universe.

And one's opinion of the Medinah isn't remotely connected to any of the
beliefs listed in Hil Teshuvah pereq 3 as those of koferim, apiqursim
or minim.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 34th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        4 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Yesod sheb'Hod: How does submission result in
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  and maintain a stable relationship?

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 01:00:55AM +0000, kennethgmil...@juno.com wrote:
: It will be totally natural, as she writes. [Eliahu haNavi']s great age
: will mean that he will have had a long time to grow both in Torah and in
: wisdom. He will have learned *from* the gedolim of all the generations,
: and quite possibly even *with* the gedolim of all the generations. And the
: net result will be that we'll follow his psak not because of his nevuah,
: and not because of his charisma, and not even out of respect. But simply
: because he will know the answers...

... and because, pro forma, Eliahu haNavi has true semichah:
    1. Moshe (1392-1272 BCE, Har Sinai - 1312 BCE)
    2. Yehoshua (1354-1244 BCE)
    3. Pinechus
    4. Eli (929 BCE)
    5. Shemu'el (889 BCE)
    6. David haMelekh (876 BCE)
    7. Achiah (800 BCE)
    8. Eliyahu (870-726 BCE)

According to the Rambam, there is a process by which the rabbis of EY can
restore the legal authority of true semichah. We can assume the SA agreed,
since R' Yosef Caro had such semichah from R' Yaaqov Beirav. The Ramban
disagreed with the Rambam. The Radvaz notes would require the presence
of someone from the unbroken shalsheles from Moshe Rabbeinu being alive,
and says this is one of the things Eliyahu haNavi will accomplish.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 34th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        4 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Yesod sheb'Hod: How does submission result in
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  and maintain a stable relationship?

<<I was thinking about what R' MB was writing about this subject - that
shinui
ha'emes is sheker - and wondering what difference it would be from wearing
makeup, or dyeing one's hair to look younger. Wearing clothing or jewelry
that makes one look wealthier than he or she is. Costume jewelry.
Advertising a business with a Broadway address that really is a mailbox
service. Having a virtual secretary. V'cha'heinah rabbos.>>

Actually how much one can exaggerate in advertising is a complicated topic.
So for example one can't put good oranges on top of a barrel of rotten
oranges to
mislead the buyer. Hence, I would not be surprised that using a false
mailing address to give a false impression is prohibited.

Obviously make-up is okay since that is common. OTOH if a woman is dating
and
covers a major flaw I would ask a posek. Again how much one can mislead for
a shidduch is
also complicated. Certainly one is not required to say/show everything but
there are limits.

I would assume that everything depends on the reason for the deception and
how common it is.
If a virtual secretary is to save money, I don't see any difficulty. If OTOH
the virtual secretary
is to impress clients that there is an office with a secretary when it is a
facade I would assume
it is prohibited


-- 
Eli Turkel
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: 
: Again, I do not see a problem with (1) omitting the picture,  (2)
: blurring the picture so that the alteration is self-evident, (3)  noting
: the deletion in a caption to the picture. All of which is equally  what
: their readership wants them to do -- but without the  misinformation
: about the Sec of State not looking like she's in the loop in  the raid.
: 
: Geneivas daas comes from the vast majority of pictures not  being altered
: in this way, and therefore the readership thinking that any  given picture
: represents reality. [--RMB on Areivim]
:  ----------------

From: "Moshe Y. Gluck" _mgluck@gmail.com_ (mailto:mgl...@gmail.com) 


I was thinking about what R' MB was writing about  this subject - that 
shinui
ha'emes is sheker - and wondering  .....
Thoughts?

KT,
MYG

>> how can it be geneivas daas  (i.e. from their readership), when this is
>>exactly what their  readership wants them to do?  [--R' Shaya Potter, on  
Areivim]





>>>>>
As RSP wrote on Areivim, even if the readership doesn't know exactly  which 
photo is altered, they know that photos are altered.  They know that  the 
policy of their newspaper is not to show photos of women.  No one is  pulling 
any wool over their eyes.
 
It is extremely difficult to see where there is any tzad of sheker  here or 
any halachic problem whatsoever.  We have already disposed of every  
possible argument:  They violated a copyright?  No, they did  not.  They led their 
readers to think that the Secretary of State  is not in the loop in 
Washington?  No, they did not.  
 
One of the things I am puzzled about is the complete lack of  worldwide 
outrage over the White House's falsification -- which really /was/  geneivas 
da'as ("Here are a bunch of important people in the White House  Situation 
Room watching the invasion of the Osama compound as it occurs" -- er  no 
actually, here a bunch of people looking at nobody knows what.)  At the  same 
time, there is world-wide feigned outrage over a photo in an obscure,  
small-circulation newspaper in New York.  My suspicion -- I say this with a  heavy 
heart -- is that our enemies want to make Jews look as bad as Arabs  ("these 
guys oppress women and these guys oppress women"), and some of our own  
fellow Orthodox Jews are mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon, aiding and  
abetting our enemies. 



--Toby Katz
================





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At 01:14 PM 5/23/2011, Reb wrote:

>On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 05:42:06PM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
> > Since Lag BaOmer is almost here, I think that people should be aware of
> > the article
> > Cutting A Boy's Hair Without Doing a Chalaka (Upsherin)  Please see
> > http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/shorshei_hair_cutting.pdf
>
>What exactly do you believe is the role of minhag in determining my
>practice?
>
>Does minhag trump my personal reasoning, as you appeared to advocate
>early today when it comes to the siddur?

I do not understand what you are referring to.  What did I advocate 
according to you regarding "when it comes to the siddur"?


>Or does your reasoning override a minhag, as you appear to be advocating
>now?
>
>Kindly explain where you draw the chiluq.

Almost all of what I post on Avodah is from sources and is not my 
own.  I feel that it is important for people to realize that a lot of 
what is done today has either no basis or the basis is shaky at 
best.  For example, Upsherin has become the "in thing,"  even amongst 
Ashkenazim.  Rabbi Hamburger's writings shed light on this practice, 
and I think that people should be aware that its practice and 
acceptance was far from universal in the past.

Personally,  I am in the following position.  I was not brought up in 
an observant home, and hence I did not have a body of minhagim that I 
am "saddled" with.  While many may think that it is a negative, over 
the years I have come to view it as a plus.  The reason is that  I 
have had to evaluate everything that I do.  I have made conscious 
decisions regarding all of my "minhagim."

Even though my parents were not observant, they did stem from 
non-Chassidic Russian stock.  Hence, while at one time I "flirted" 
with Chassidus, I came to reject it.  My personal opinion is that on 
the whole Chassidus is not a plus for Yahadus.  The more I see 
regarding what is going on today, the more convinced I am that I am 
correct.  I realize that anyone in the "Chassidic camp" will disagree 
with me, but this is my personal opinion based on what I have read and seen.

The more I study the writings of RSRH, the more impressed I am.  They 
speak to me almost every time I read something that he or his 
son-in-law or his grandson wrote.  I also knew Rav S. Schwab, and 
found him a true Adam Godol.  Hence, my strong leanings toward 
Ashkenaz practice.

It is not up to me to tell you what the role of minhag is in 
determining your practice.  However, I do feel that one should make 
informed decisions, not simply say that this is the way my father and 
grandfather did.  This is the reason behind many my posts.

YL
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R' SZN:
a review ?of the new Dialogue Journal includes this observation [of r
meiselman's article] 

Furthermore, RMM claims there IS Psak when it comes to Hashkofo, and we need
to follow the majority 

---is this ?an to ?agreed point? ?is there any hope for those who believe in
such hashkafically assur entities as an old universe or a secular Medina?
----------------------



KT,
MYG

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 03:54:00PM -0400, T6...@aol.com wrote:
: As RSP wrote on Areivim, even if the readership doesn't know exactly  which 
: photo is altered, they know that photos are altered...

I think I'm about to make a similar point to the one RET just did when
he wrote:
> I would assume that everything depends on the reason for the deception
> and how common it is. If a virtual secretary is to save money, I don't
> see any difficulty. If OTOH the virtual secretary is to impress clients
> that there is an office with a secretary when it is a facade I would
> assume it is prohibited

I'm not sure purpose matters, beyond the limited list in the gemara. IOW,
if it was to save money but rare, it's still assur.

However, I would have phrased the other issue not being essentially about
frequency, but rather expectation. If it's common, then people make
allowances for it. Makeup is common, it's fair to assume that people
won't assume a woman walking down the street isn't wearing any. If the
audience would natually assume they are getting the facts, then there
is a problem if they aren't.

My assumption is that since it's a mi'ut of the pictures, people who look
at the picture who have no idea there once was a woman in it are misled.
Even if they know the paper's policy is that they could alter photos to
remove women, it's not likely to cross someone's mind that this was done
in this particular instance.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 34th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        4 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Yesod sheb'Hod: How does submission result in
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  and maintain a stable relationship?

There seems to be some conflict in these matters.

Some say, there used not to be much machlokes, because everyone knew the
correct halacha, and our current state of confusion is the result of our
forgetting all that.
So Eliyahu can just tell us what he remembers from before the days
of forgetfulness.  "A kav of dates and pomegranates in a four-amah square?
My teacher Achiyah asked that very question of Moshe Rabbenu, and this was
Moshe's answer..."

But the Ritva Eruvin 13 cites a Medrash that every Halacha taught to Moshe R
on Har Sinai was taught with many reasons for opposing conclusions, Muttar
and Assur, Tamei and Tahor etc. They are all legitimate and can all be ruled
by any BD that sees a fit argument to support one view and dismiss the
arguments of preceding BD, even though they are not a superior BD. RMBM
Mamri Ch 2:1
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R' Liron Kopinsky asked:

> We are making Aliya this summer, and I'm looking to compile a list
> of shailas to ask my (currently) LOR about things we need to be
> aware of "straight off the boat."

I can't imagine anything more "straight off the boat" than, "Should I say Shehecheyanu? And if so, exactly when?"

Wishing I could join you,
Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
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r sternbukh  points out that  the net count  of  bnai yisrael  is the same 
 in shmot and bmidbar  in spite of  shevet levi's  being  counted 
separately in bmidbar, to teach that RBSO  made up to klal yisrael  that 
the 'army'  [litzvo tzava]  didnt lose out  by exempting  shevet levi from 
military service; and it should be a mussar haskel.
one could probably argue that  1] those were nes-filled times [ at least 
more apparent than now]    2]  the ratio of  shevet levi to the shvatim 
would seem to have been in the  5 %  range.  i assume that the ratio of 18 
yr olds in israel applying for torato umnato  status is significantly 
higher.....


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Some Poskim maintain that once you have made a firm commitment to move to
Israel, you are already a Ben Eretz Yisrael, and should therefore keep one
day Yomtov. So you may need questions answering even before you leave.



On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Liron Kopinsky <liron.kopin...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi All,
> We are making Aliya this summer, and I'm looking to compile a list of
> shailas to ask my (currently) LOR about things we need to be aware of
> "straight off the boat."
>
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Please see http://cor.ca/view/169/cooking_on_yom_tov.html

 From http://tinyurl.com/448dcxd

Like the Anisakis worm in fresh salmon, it is the 
kashrus issue that never died.  Eighteen months 
ago, the debate raged in the Jewish community ? 
may one consume fish that are infested with the 
Anisakis worm or must one  first removing them from the flesh of the fish?

The Brooklyn Vaad HaRabbonim, the Baltimore 
Kashrus agency, and a handful of other Kashrus 
agencies were stringent.  The Orthodox Union, in 
agreement with Rabbi Vay from Jerusalem, however, 
ruled that these worms while still in the flesh 
of the fish are kosher.  [The interview of Rabbi 
Vay may be seen at this 
link 
<http://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=EMtQLb1YmLo>http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=EMtQLb1YmLo]. 
Even the lenient position is of the opinion that 
once the worm has left the fish it is no longer kosher.
So what happened now?  Apparently, some top 
Rabbinic decisors have  signed a letter clearly 
indicating their position that the Anisakis worm, 
while still in the flesh of the fish, is 
decidedly NOT KOSHER.  The letter, which has yet 
to be published in the Jewish press, has the 
signatures of Rabbi Feivel Cohen Shlita, Rav 
Dovid Feinstein Shlita  and Rav Aharon Schechter Shlita.

Rav Feivel Cohen is a Rav in Brooklyn and a 
prolific author of halachic works, Rav Feinstein 
is one of the leading Poskim in the United 
States, and Rav Aharon Schechter is the Rosh 
HaYeshiva of the Chaim Berlin Yeshiva.

The Kashrus issue centers on the whether it has 
been demonstrated that the Anisakis worm clearly 
comes from outside of the fish or whether it may 
still be assumed that the worm develops 
internally.  The Orthodox Union maintains that 
according to Jewish law, one may still make the 
assumption that the worm has developed within the 
fish itself.  Other authorities maintain that the 
permissive ruling of the Shulchan Aruch does not 
apply when it can be observed that the worm 
actually migrated into the flesh from elsewhere.

The new initiative to ban the parasitic worm 
comes directly from the court of Rav Elyashiv in 
Jerusalem.  Rabbi Efrati in particular has pushed 
the new effort toward the ban on fish that have not had the Anisakis removed.

Anisakis are rare in waters with low salinity and in the southern North Sea.



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