Avodah Mailing List

Volume 28: Number 74

Mon, 09 May 2011

• 1. Re: onen erev pesach (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 2. Re: Zimun - 2 women with 1 man - permitted? (Danny Schoemann)
• 3. binfol oyivkha (Eli Turkel)
• 4. Re: binfol oyivkha (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Zimun - 2 women with 1 man - permitted? (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Picture of Bin Ladin - a thought (Danny Schoemann)
• 7. Re: our way of (roundabout) speaking (Poppers, Michael)
• 8. Drasha of Rebbe Yaacov of Husiatin May of 1948 (Ben Waxman)
• 9. Re: Picture of Bin Ladin - a thought (Ben Waxman)
• 10. Hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut (AES)
• 11. Inviting Someone On Shabbos Who Uses the Eruv when You Don't (Prof. Levine)

R' Eli Turkel asked:

> His father died the evening before Pesach and the funeral
> was in the afternoon and so sat shiva only for a short time.
>
> He is also a bechor and the question was whether he had to
> fast, with/without a siyum?

(Introductory disclaimer: I will be using the words "mitzvah" and "issur"
in this post, but they should be clearly understood in the context of
Taanis Bechorim being "only" a minhag.)

My mara d'asra, and our listmember, Rav Elazar Teitz, often explains to the
community that Taanis Bechorim is very different than the other fasts. On
the other fasts, we have both a mitzvah to fast and an issur to eat, but on
Taanis Bechorim we have only the mitzvah of fasting. This is clearly seen
from the fact that the Seudas Mitzvah allows us to eat even afterward. If
Taanis Bechorim had an issur achila aspect, then one would *not* be able to
eat after the seudah, just as how on a regular fast day, if one eats by
mistake he still has to abstain from eating the rest of the day. However,
on Taanis Bechorim, once one has broken the fast, there's no longer any
point in abstaining from eating.

Based on the above, my guess is that a bechor who is an onen can eat on
Erev Pesach WITHOUT EVEN attending a siyum. It is like any other positive
mitzvah from which he is exempt.

By comparison, my understanding is that an onen who wants to eat bread must
wash (without a bracha) because there is both a positive mitzva of washing
and also a prohibition against eating bread with unwashed hands -- this is
similar to other fasts. In contrast, my recollection is that an onen does
*not* wear tzitzis, because there is no issur involved (as long as he's not
wearing a four-cornered garment) -- this is similar to Taanis Bechorim.

Akiva Miller

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RMB quoting RDS:
> : Reading between the lines, it seems like technically it should/could
> : be permitted, but the Minhag was to not do so.
>
> But this presumes a mixed-gender zimun is a matter of reshus. I had asked,
> in reply to the same post by RtSB that RDS is replying to, why this
> would be. Given that men and women have an equal chiyuv in bentching,

You may want to reassess that assertion. SA OC 186:1 states:
"Women are obligated in Birkat Hamazon and it's a Safek if that's a
Torah or a Rabbinic Chiyuv; the difference being if they can be Motzi
somebody who has a Torah obligation to Bentsch. (See 199 for their
obligation in Zimun)"

> why would the prohibition against breaking up a zimun apply any less
> when some of the mechuyavim are actually mechuyavos?

So you may have inadvertently found your answer.

- Danny (RDS)

<<Except the medrash, rishonim and numerous acharonim who say that
half-Hallel on the 7th day of Pesach is because of the death of
the Mitzriim after all.

We can hate the evil of a person, while appreciating that he is still
   the work of G-d's hands. >>

How does this explain the shira that the Jews (Moshe and Miriam) made after
the Egyptians drowned in Yam Suf.  The shira celebrates explicitly their
drowning


-- 
Eli Turkel
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On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 09:56:51AM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
:> We can hate the evil of a person, while appreciating that he is still
:> the work of G-d's hands.

: How does this explain the shira that the Jews (Moshe and Miriam) made after
: the Egyptians drowned in Yam Suf.  The shira celebrates explicitly their
: drowning

Look at the reisha of your quote: Didn't their evil go down with them?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 11:34:24AM +0300, Danny Schoemann wrote:
:> But this presumes a mixed-gender zimun is a matter of reshus. I had asked,
:> in reply to the same post by RtSB that RDS is replying to, why this
:> would be. Given that men and women have an equal chiyuv in bentching,

: You may want to reassess that assertion. SA OC 186:1 states:
: "Women are obligated in Birkat Hamazon and it's a Safek if that's a
: Torah or a Rabbinic Chiyuv; the difference being if they can be Motzi
: somebody who has a Torah obligation to Bentsch. (See 199 for their
: obligation in Zimun)"

Thank you. This /does/ answer my question. And the SA says this is the
reason by pointing us from this machloqes to the siman on zimun.

To work in a tip... much of the SA is available for free. E.g. this
se'if is at http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D
7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D
7%A7%D7%A4%D7%95

which looks really long and evil until you go there and see that all
those %xy's encode the words "Shulchan Arukh Orach CHaiim QPV" , and
would be short and clean if my browser cut-n-paste Hebrew letters in
a URL.

Or just see http://bit.ly/jr4vSH .

I recently listed a number of exceptions to the mitzvos asei shehazman
gerama rule, most of them ones where the mitzvah isn't time-delimited
but women are still peturos. Is "after you eat" considered a zeman? I
find that hard to picture. Or, is it that according to those who hold
it's derabbanan, this is another item for my list?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 20th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        2 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Yesod sheb'Tifferes: What role does harmony
Fax: (270) 514-1507                   play in maintaining relationships?

From: R' Aryeh Herzig <gurar...@gmail.com> on Areivim
> One should not be "mistakel" on the face of a Rasha.

Bavli Megila 24a; to emulate Hashem who does not want to see them.
Shabbos 104a; it's not good for your eyesight.

> Likewise, one should not be "mistakel" on the moon

After looking at it before making Kiddish Levono Oruch Hashulchan Orach
Chaim 426:5 says "al pi Kabolo"
Mishna Brura 426:2:(13) discusses whether this applies after Kiddish
Levono or even during Kiddish Levono (as per the Sefer Chareidim).
Memory: So as not to embarrass it that it's so small that we can gaze
at it. Note: There does not seem to be a source in Bavli for not looking
at the moon.

> or a rainbow.

Chagiga 16a: As it resembles the Glory of Hashem
It also says there that you shouldn't stare:
- at the Cohanim during Birkat Cohanim; as the Shechina rests on their
  fingers (Rashi).
- at the Nasi since it says (Bemidbar 27:20) that he is bestowed with
  Hashem's glory.

> And, Likewise, a man should not be "mistakel" on a strange woman.

Bavli Brachot 61a

> What about a photograph?
> Of a woman is prohibited because of impure thoughts.
> What about the moon or a rainbow?

Moon: Picture wouldn't embarrass it
Rainbow: If a picture could capture the full glory, then maybe...
Nasi and Cohanim: Picture doesn't have the Shechina.

> The face of the Rasha, is it like the former or the latter?

If it's to emulate Hashem not wanting to "acknowledge" them, then a
picture should be forbidden too. But, is that the reason?

- Danny, with the help of Toras Emes http://www.toratemetfreeware.com/

In Avodah V28n72#3, REMT replied to R'Micha:
>> I would translate "im yitzeh H'" to "I want it to happen, and hope
>> He does to [I think R'Micha meant "too" --MP]." However, "be'ezras
>> Hashem" is a statement of intent -- "I am going to try to do it,
>> and I hope He allows me to succeed." There is a slight difference
>> between realizing the difference between hope and bitachon and
realizing the difference between hishtadlus and success.
>> E.g. Be"H we're going to the doctor tomorrow, iy"H they'll find a medicine for him then. <<
>	 Actually, as Yiddish is spoken, it is exactly the opposite.  When
>	 stating the intent to do something, one adds "im yirtze Hashem,"
>	 thereby indicating the awareness that man proposes, but G-d
>	 disposes.  When indicating the desire for an outcome, one says
>	 "b'ezras Hashem" or "mit G-tt's hilf," expressing the hope that He
>	 will bring about the desired outcome.
Thus, one would say "We're going to the doctor tomorrow, G-d willing; with G-d's help, the doctor will find the cure." <
Far be it from me to get involved in a machloqes between those far more
knowledgeable in Yiddish than I am, but I would like to note, FWIW, a
fragment from the lyrics of a recently released song called "Ya'alili" (by
8th day) which alternates between "Safaradi" and "Ashk'nazi"
Rabbonim/entertainers/songs/phrases -- it compares "shet'hei l'mazal,
Safaradi/i'y'H' bei dir, Ashk'nazi," an indication that the way Yiddish (or
at least the noted phrase) is used in modern Torah communities, "i'y'H'"
means what R'Micha listed it as meaning. 

All the best from 
-- Michael Poppers via BB pager

BS"D

OHALEI YAACOV- EMOR 5708

(FOR YOM HAATZMAUT)

REBBE YAACOV FREIDMAN OF HUSIATIN ZT"L

(Translated and annotated by Rav Zvi Leshem)*



(Emor - The Hebrew State has been declared in the Land of Israel).



We are in the midst of a difficult war, a war of defense, the forces of
darkness and impurity have gathered upon us to prevent Jewish sovereignty
in even a small part of the Land of Israel. We are not "pushing the end"[1]
- but the end is pushing us. The troubles, sufferings and bloody events of
the last ten years have pushed us to the Land of Israel,[2] and forced us
to take steps to end the rule of foreigners from our necks and to liberate
the Land from the control of gentiles. We also did not rebel against the
nations, for behold they recognized our right to an independent state in
the Land of Israel. We also didn't rise up as a wall - together as with a
strong hand, rather we entered with permission, a bit at a time, subtly,
without the use of warships. The opposite is in fact true, it is the
nations of the world that violated their oath, not to persecute the Jewish
People too much, and they added even more evil, torturing and murdering.
Therefore we hope and pray for G-d
  will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Yehuda, and they shall live
  there and inherit it; the offspring of His servants shall possess it,
  those who cherish His name shall dwell there.[3] This verse is found in
  Psalms chapter 69, and chapter 70 begins Lamenatzeach of David to
  remember, and Rashi explains there (in the name of Midrash Tehilim);
  above it is mentioned that G-d will deliver Zion etc, and the offspring
  of his servants shall inherit it etc, behold the pen is built and the
  sheep have been brought in, but the shepherd, David, is not mentioned.
  Thus it begins "Of David to remember". 



This means to say that when, despite the threats of our enemies, 

G-d will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Yehuda and the offspring of
His servants shall possess it, we need to remember David. This means that
we need to remember that the establishment of the Jewish State, despite its
priceless value, is still not the Redemption we hope for and that was
promised to us. The true Redemption is bound up with the coming of the
Messiah - son of David - Of David to remember!



Furthermore we must remember as the State is being established, the conditions for the State to continue to exist:



1: Peace and unity, for behold strife was the cause of the destruction.[4] 



2: Holiness and purity, as it says at the end of Parshat Kedoshim, and said
to you; you shall possess their land (of the gentiles who dwell in the
Land), etc, you shall be holy to Me, for I the L-rd am holy[5] - (this is
the condition!). Eretz Yisrael is the aspect of the King's palace,[6] and
must be pure from any trace of filth. And I am not here referring only to
the prohibitions at the end of Parshat Achrei Mot and Parshat Kedoshim,[7]
for all of HaShem's commandments without exception were given to purify and
sanctify the Jewish People, as it says in Midrash Tanchuma[8] "The words of
the L-rd are pure words"[9] - whatever the Holy One Blessed be He warns Am
Yisrael is for their holiness and purity. If so, the full observance of all
of G-d's commandments is a condition for the State's existence. 



Behold the command; you shall have an honest balance, honest weights, an
honest ephah and an honest hin.[10] Behold, these are financial laws
relating to interpersonal relations, and one who violates this law and lies
about his measures also causes the exile of the Jewish People.[11]  And in
Rav Chaim Vital's She'ary Kedusha,[12] the reason the Jews were exiled from
their land was only because they violated the verse "keep far from
falsehood".[13] At the time when the State is being established it is
crucial to remember carefully all of the conditions for its existence; not
only financial and security arrangements and international relations are
the conditions of existence! 



From this you can say that to warn the great ones regarding the small ones,
according to the Toldot[14] this doesn't refer only to adults and children,
but rather to those who are great in faith and those who are small in
faith. For those who are great in faith are obligated to influence those
who are of little faith. And it is possible to have more influence
regarding those mitzvot that are of an interpersonal nature. As Rav
said,[15] what is an example of desecrating G-d's name? If someone like me
purchases meat from the butcher and doesn't pay immediately. 



Now we are in the period of Sefirat HaOmer, and the mitzva of Sefirat
HaOmer is to purify and sanctify our character traits. If we succeed in
doing this properly it will give us the merit to inherit the Land, for
purity and holiness are conditional, as we stated above. This is hinted at
in the statement of Rabbi Yochanon in Midrash Raba,[16] the mitzva of the
Omer should not be light in your eyes, for through the mitzva of the Omer
Avraham merited to inherit the Land of Canaan. This means that through pure
and sanctified character traits unity is achieved and peace is made between
Knesset Yisrael and Hakadosh Baruch Hu. And this is hinted at in the
statement of Reish Lakish in Midrash Raba,[17] the mitzva of the Omer
should not be light in your eyes, for through it peace is made between a
man and his wife, which hints at the relationship between Knesset Yisrael
and HaKadosh Baruch Hu, as it says,[18] if a man divorces his wife, and she
leaves him and marries another man, can 
 he ever go back to her?...can you return to Me - says the L-rd. And this
 is what is written in the holy Zohar,[19] and you should count.when
 Yisrael left Egypt, they left defilement.from then on they should count,
 these fifty days to bring a woman close to her husband to unite with him.



Beloved Jews, the Muslims are here, we are engaged in heavy warfare with a
wild people, who are sacrificing their lives for the honor of their people
and their land, how can we participate in the war and help to defeat them,
for we are too old to join the army? We can assist in the area of sanctity
and purity and complete teshuva. Great is teshuva, for it speeds up the
redemption.[20]





*This drasha was delivered by the Chassidic Rebbe Yaacov of Husiatin zt"l
(of the Rizhiner line) in Tel Aviv on Shabbat Parshat Emor in May of 1948,
a week and a day after the declaration of Israel's independence, and at the
height of the War of Independence. In subsequent years the Rebbe would
preside over a festive tisch on Yom HaAtzmaut. His drashot are collected in
Ohalei Yaacov, Jerusalem 5766. May his memory be blessed and may his
teachings continue to guide us.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[1] The first references are to the "three oaths" in Ketubot 111a; that we
should not return to Israel "like a wall", rebel against the nations or try
to push up the Redemption, and upon Rashi's comments there. The gentile
nations were sworn not to oppress Am Yisrael "too much". According to
numerous authorities the prohibition of rebelling against the nations is
not applicable after the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations
decision that Palestine would become the Jewish homeland. For a summary of
the material, see Rav Shlomo Aviner, Sh'Lo Ya'alu K'Choma, Jerusalem 5740. 

[2] The Rebbe himself made aliya in 1937.

[3] Tehilim 69:37.

[4] Yoma 9b.

[5] Yayikra 20:24-26.

[6] Sifrei Ekev.

[7] Forbidden sexual relationships. 

[8] Parshat Emor 1.

[9] Tehillim 12:7.

[10] Vayikra 19:36.

[11] Rashi there in the name of the Torat Cohanim.

[12] Part Two, Gate Five.

[13] Shemot 23:7.

[14] Toldot Yaacov Yosef, Emor 4, based upon Yevamot 114a.

[15] Yoma 86a.

[16] Emor 28:6.

[17] Ibid. 

[18] Yirmiyahu 3:1

[19] Emor 97a.

[20] Yoma 86b.
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And where does not having pictures of tamei animals fit into this equation?

Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danny Schoemann" <doni...@gmail.com>
> 
> Moon: Picture wouldn't embarrass it
> Rainbow: If a picture could capture the full glory, then maybe...
> Nasi and Cohanim: Picture doesn't have the Shechina.
> 
>> The face of the Rasha, is it like the former or the latter?
> 
> If it's to emulate Hashem not wanting to "acknowledge" them, then a
> picture should be forbidden too. But, is that the reason?

My shul hosted a scholar in residence this past shabbos.  One of his
talks was a shiur on the concept of saying hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut
(with or without a bracha; the propriety of saying al hanisim and
shehechiyanu, etc.).

The shiur was relatively balanced but at the end of the shiur, the rav
stated that those who do not say hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut would
ultimately have to "give din v'cheshbon" for their actions.

Later, in a different talk, the rav made a personal request from
everyone in the shul - from those of who daven nusach ashkenaz.  He
requested that, in the beracha of T'ka B'shofar of shemona esrei,
instead of saying "v'kab'tseinu yachad m'heirah mei'arba kanfos
haarets", we should add "l'artseinu"

The rav acknowledged that adding "l'artseinu" was nusach sefard but
said that RYBS, who davened nusach ashkenaz, made that one change and
added "l'artseinu" to his shemona esrei.

Question:  Can anyone confirm whether RYBS did in fact say "l'artseinu"?

KT,
Aryeh

We have several Eruvim here in Flatbush. I do not rely on any of them.

Question: May I invite a couple whom I know will wheel their baby in 
a stroller to eat at my house on Shabbos?  They, of course, do rely 
on the Flatbush eruv [at least one of them].

Yitzchok Levine 



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