Avodah Mailing List

Volume 28: Number 24

Wed, 16 Feb 2011

• 1. Re: Geirut for marriage (Chana Luntz)
• 2. Re: NishmaBlog: Pardon my French! "Bon Matin" and "Franglais" (Ben Waxman)
• 3. Davening in a Mosque (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: Davening in a Mosque (Yitzchak Schaffer)
• 5. Re: Davening in a Mosque (Zev Sero)
• 6. kosher stores, rechovi (menucha)

>
> RMB writes:
>


> RDE put on his blog a letter by R' Amar with agreement by ROY, which talks
> about the requirement of qabbalas ol mitzvos le'iquva. Including
> attributing
> this position to the Rambam.
>
> See the image at
> <
> http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/02/army-geirus-psa
> k-of-rav-amar-with_10.html
> >
>

Sorry?  I am struggling to read the hand written bit, but the bit in type
doesn't attribute the position of qabbalas ol mitzvos le'iquva to the
Rambam. It attributes (in paragraph heh) to the Rambam (and the Shulchan
Aruch and the gemora) that if the ger did mila and tevila and kabbala and
then later was over on the mitzvos, he is treated as a Israel mumer.

Ie what it is saying is that according to *all opinions* if all this
happened and then the ger was over on mitzvos, he is treated as a Israel
mumar.  Nobody disagrees with this (actually, that is not true, there are
people around claiming for retrospective invalidations, but leave that
aside).  It is in paragraph aleph that it discusses that if there is no
acceptance before three kosher to judge he is not a ger, and there is no
citation of the Rambam there (not that they need to, it is the position, as
I have pointed out previously, of Tosphos and the main opinion of the
Shulchan Aruch).

It also says that it is a responsibility of Beis Din to check and see if the
person is sincere about what they say, and if they believe he is lying not
to accept the candidate.  It does not attribute this position particularly
to the Rambam either.  Nor, note, does it say what happens if they don't
listen to this psak and accept the candidate anyway, or, even more
critically, if they actually do get fooled, despite their best efforts.




> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
> CC-ing RnCL, because I haven't seen her around lately.
>
> Shabbat Shalom

Chana
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From another line:

Problem is, the shulchan aruch and other primary sources have very
little to say about how a woman should dress.


[BW] So what do you do when there is very little material with which to 
work?

Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does such a system in theory eventually converge to total codified rules 
> as a basis for decisions?  IMHO part of the issue today is we have a 
> system with detailed analytic rules and analysis which every so often gets 
> a wild card "poetic" response (which would not have been the obvious 
> result of the analytics and there are no clear analytic rules when to go 
> poetic). 

From <http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4016144,00.html>, so
include usual caveats of media discussion of halachic discourse. Here's
a snippet:

    "It would be better to pray in a mosque and do so with meaning and
    after the sun rises, rather than at home, at dawn or at the airport
    and without meaning," Rabbi Baruch Efrati determined recently in a
    response posted on the Kipa website recently.

Searching for "Efrati" on www.kipa.co.il didn't turn up the story. So I
couldn't check further. Thinking purely halachically, why not?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Time flies...
mi...@aishdas.org                    ... but you're the pilot.
http://www.aishdas.org                       - R' Zelig Pliskin
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On 2011-02-14 14:44, Micha Berger wrote:
> Searching for "Efrati" on www.kipa.co.il didn't turn up the story. So I
> couldn't check further. Thinking purely halachically, why not?
>

I think it's
http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show.asp?ask=235105

Courtesy Google:
http://bit.ly/eNdTwW

-- 
Yitzchak Schaffer

On 14/02/2011 2:44 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
>>From<http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4016144,00.html>, so

On a point of metziut: the prayer room at such airports is usually *not*
designated as a mosque, but rather a neutral room for prayers that
happens to have facilities for Moslem prayer, some of which are also
useful for Jewish prayer, such as a sink for hand- (and feet-) washing;
a chart listing hanetz, chatzot, and shkia (among other zemanim); a green
arrow on the ceiling pointing to Mecca, which from most places is in the
same direction as Yerushalayim; and an absence of images, icons, etc,
that could be problematic.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
z...@sero.name                 eventually run out of other people?s money
                                                      - Margaret Thatcher

Is the restriction against long skirts found anywhere in psak? I seem
to be finding the opposite.

Meshane Halachot 12,316. In response to a specific question about
wearing long skirts which are in "moda" the answer is "halevai veyelchu
kulam besmalot arucot"

Also, shu"t Shevet Halevi 5,75,2 is quite clear in his opinion that
shok is till the ankle - even exempting them from wearing garbayim!!!!
So where does this "rechovi" bit come in?

menucha

rechovi = something you see worn on the streets, in other words what's
"in" in the non-frum/non-Jewish world but not acceptable in chareidi
society, even if it is not tehnically un-tznius, such as when long,
long skirts sweeping the streets were "in".

*** Rena



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