Avodah Mailing List

Volume 27: Number 149

Mon, 26 Jul 2010

• 1. The Study of Torah and Scientific Knowledge (Prof. Levine)
• 2. The mezuzah is not an amulet (Prof. Levine)
• 3. Re: The Gaon's Theorem (David Riceman)
• 4. Re: zecher lechurban (Harry Weiss)
• 5. Re: zecher lechurban (T6...@aol.com)
• 6. Re: minhagei 9 av (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 7. Cramers theorem (Eli Turkel)
• 8. Re: Cramer's theorem (Prof. Levine)
• 9. Re: kosher cabbage (Shoshana L. Boublil)
• 10. Re: kosher cabbage (Prof. Levine)

The following is from RSRH's commentary on Devarim 6. Note that Rav 
Hirsch says that we are to be familiar with "scientific knowledge." 
However, we are to do only from the Torah's perspective. YL

7 And impress them sharply upon your sons and speak of them when you 
sit in your house and when you walk upon the way, when you lie
down and when you get up.

The study of the Torah shall be our main intellectual pursuit. We are not
to study the Torah incidentally. We are not to study Torah from the standpoint
of another science or for the sake of that science. So, too, we are to
be careful not to introduce into the sphere of the Torah foreign ideas that
were developed on the basis of other premises. Rather, we should always
be mindful of the superiority of the Torah, which differs from all other
scientific knowledge through its Divine origin. We should not imagine
that it is based on mere human knowledge and accordingly is on the same
level as other human sciences.

We have already explained in our Commentary on Vayikra 18:4-5
that these statements [of our Sages] do not demand of us to completely
ignore all the scientific knowledge that has been gained and cultivated in
other spheres. Rather, these statements assume that a person is familiar
with these other realms of knowledge, but they teach us that one should
occupy himself with this knowledge only from the Torah's perspective,
for only in this way will this knowledge be beneficial to us, and they warn
us that neglecting this perspective will jeopardize our intellectual life.


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The following is from RSRH's commentary on Devarim 6

9 And write them upon the [door-]posts of your house and upon your gates.

The mezuzah is not an amulet; in and of itself, it does not protect the
house. Only insofar as they shape their lives in accordance with the mezuzah's
content can the people within the house expect help and protection
from God, the "All-Sovereign and All-Sufficing," in all the vicissitudes
of domestic life. With this intent it is our custom to adorn the
outside of the mezuzah with the Name Shin-Daled Yud.
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RYL:

<<Until I came across this I was not aware that there was something

called the Gaon's Theorem.>>

As far as I know this is a false rumor.  Cramer's rule was published by a
Swiss mathematician named Gabriel Cramer.  Perhaps you should state what
you believe the "Gaon's theorem" to be.

David Riceman

From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
> However, a "zecher l'churban" unfinished wall area is required in
> other public use buildings such as catering halls and hotels. Piskei
> Tshuvos 560:6

> Has anyone ever seen such a thing in a hotel or catering hall?

Hopefully an attachment will go through. This is the shul with a catering
hall in Torino Italy.

[Attachments don't go through, for future knowledge. I intercepted the
post and put the picture at
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/torino.jpg>
-micha]

 

From: Eli Turkel _eliturkel@gmail.com_ (mailto:elitur...@gmail.com) 

>>   from daily halacha

However, a "zecher l'churban" unfinished wall area is  required in
other public use buildings such as catering halls and hotels.  Piskei
Tshuvos 560:6

Has anyone ever seen such a thing in a hotel or  catering hall?

I have been in very few homes where there was a noticeable  zecher 
lechurban<<

-- 
Eli Turkel

 
>>>>>>
I've never seen it in a hotel and have rarely seen  it in chu'l, but in E'Y 
almost every charedi apartment has an unpainted  rectangle over the front 
door.
 
In my own home (Florida) whenever some tile breaks  or paint flakes off and 
I don't get around to fixing it, I just say,  "Zecher lechurban."  
 
This is only semi-humorous, because I believe that the  entropy that 
results in constant breakage and flakeage is the result of our  living in a 
non-redeemed world.  Entropy won't exist anymore (or won't  cause personal damage 
and loss) when Moshiach comes.  The ultimate entropy  is death and death 
will be no more.
 

--Toby  Katz
==========

--------------------



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R' Tal Moshe Zwecker wrote:

> The Mishna says 'mishenichnas Av mema'atin b'simcha' ... However,
> we can also read it another way: "When Av enters we decrease,
> through joy." How do we diminish the pain and suffering which
> comes when Av enters? Specifically through the simchah, through a
> positive outlook and a joyous approach. That is why we have the
> minhag to make siyums during this time.

Yes, I concede that the words can be read this way.

> You may disagree with the Chassidic approach but remember the
> leaders of Chassidus were giants in Torah learning of Niglah as
> well and any argument you can muster they surely thought of as
> well.

I agree with this too. And I hope that you can communicate to me how they would respond to these questions.

I had written:

> I do NOT understand why ANYone would feel justified in lessening
> the spirit of mourning (except for unusually rare cases of
> depression and such).

I see now that I should have phrased my question better. I will try to do
so now. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not attacking; I really do
want to understand.

WHY do the leaders of Chassidus want to "diminish the pain and suffering
which comes when Av enters?" Is this pain and suffering inappropriate?
Shouldn't we WANT to cry at this time?

I understand that, in general, Chassidus promotes a joyful outlook on life.
I have no problem with that, in general. My question is whether there are
any exceptions to this general approach. Doesn't Koheles 3:4 teach that
there is indeed a time to cry?

Does Chassidus also use a positive and joyous approach when someone's
flesh-and-blood parent leaves this world? Shouldn't we try to feel
similarly about the Beis Hamikdash? 

These are not angry, rhetorical questions. I have learned a great deal of
other communities here on Avodah, and perhaps this can be my introduction
to Chassidus. Thank you in advance.

Akiva Miller

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<<According to some sources, the Vilna Gaon is the author of
"The Gaon's Theorem," a principle of the mathematics
of infinity (Feldman, A., 1999). Other sources
claimed that this theorem was called "Kramer's Theorem,"
Kramer being the Vilna Gaon's family name.
Gerver (1993), however, stated that this supposition
was unlikely, as the author of this article did not
present proof for these two opinions.>>

From Wikipedia

In linear algebra, Cramer's rule is a theorem, which gives an
expression for the solution of a system of linear equations with as
many equations as unknowns, valid in those cases where there is a
unique solution. The solution is expressed in terms of the
determinants  of the (square) coefficient matrix and of matrices
obtained from it by replacing one column by the vector of right hand
sides of the equations. It is named after Gabriel Cramer (1704?1752),
who published the rule in his 1750 Introduction ? l'analyse des lignes
courbes alg?briques, although Colin Maclaurin also published the
method in his 1748 Treatise of Algebra (and probably knew of the
method as early as 1729).

(note the Vilna Gaon lived from 1720 to October 9, 1797)

I couldn't find any theorem called Gaon's theorem


-- 
Eli Turkel

At 04:53 AM 7/26/2010, Eli Turkel wrote:
>In linear algebra, Cramer's rule is a theorem, which gives an
>expression for the solution of a system of linear equations with as
>many equations as unknowns, valid in those cases where there is a
>unique solution....     It is named after Gabriel Cramer (1704?17522),
>who published the rule...
>I couldn't find any theorem called Gaon's theorem

I do not believe that what this author is referring to is Cramer's
rule. Cramer's rule is certainly not "a principle of the mathematics of
infinity." However, I have to admit that I do not know what theorem the
writer is referring to. I have email the author about this.

YL

To assist Prof. Levine, who hasn't had the opportunity and others who have
not yet taken Terumot U'Maa'serot, here is a written instruction guide:

http://www.toraland.org.il/web/project/project.asp?codeClient=1555&;codeSubWe
b=0&id=13248


It is of course in Hebrew.

Shoshana L. Boublil
(posted following a moderator request)


From: areivim-boun...@lists.aishdas.org
[mailto:areivim-boun...@lists.aishdas.org] On Behalf Of Prof. Levine
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Areivim] kosher cabbage

At 04:10 PM 7/20/2010, Ben Waxman wrote:
So why not learn the process? After all, this is simply part of Torah.
 
Ben

Again, I  do not see Israeli fruits and vegetables for sale here. 

At 03:11 AM 7/26/2010, you wrote:
>To assist Prof. Levine, who hasn't had the opportunity and others who have
>not yet taken Terumot U'Maa'serot, here is a written instruction guide:
>
>http://www.toraland.org.il/web/project/project.asp?codeClient=15
>55&;codeSubWe
>b=0&id=13248
>
>
>It is of course in Hebrew.
>
>Shoshana L. Boublil
>(posted following a moderator request)

The conclusions at  the end of the article at 
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/rmjBroydeTerumah.pdf that Chana 
Luntz referred us to really sum up this issue. At the end the author 
states, "Particularly, since fruits and vegetables are currently 
obligated in teruma and ma'aser only rabbinically, even in Israel 
proper, the presence of these many factors is enough to eliminate 
completely the obligation outside of Israel." I think that it is 
worth quoting these conclusions in their entirety (without the 
footnotes) which I have done below.

Given this, I fail to see that there is any "special mitzva" attached 
to buying Israeli produce.  Furthermore, one is not avoiding doing a 
mitzvah by not purchasing them.

Of course, doing so does support the economy of EY, but one can do 
this in a variety of other ways also.  YL


----------



This article started with a discussion of the basis for the
obligation ,to separate teruma currently and concluded that
the obligation even in Israel is rabbinic in nature for all
fruits and vegetables, We then noted a dispute among the
rishonim, early acharonim, and modern commentators as to
whether one has to separate teruma and ma'aser from such
produce once it leaves Israel. Finally, we have discussed
various factual scenarios where one is uncertain if teruma
and ma'asa need be taken, A practical conclusion can be
suggested:

1] One who carries unseparated produce (tevel) directly
out of Israel proper, and thus knows that the produce comes
from a Jewish farmer in halachic Israel, should separate
teruma and ma'aser, since many authorities rule that to be
rabbinically required, and that is the custom. However,
one should do so without a beracha, since numerous
authorities rule that fruits and vegetables - even once
obligated in teruma and ma'aser in Israel - lose that obligation
upon leaving the boundaries of Israel proper.

2] One who encounters fruits or vegetables sold in the
United States as a "product of Israel", with no other
information given as to its origins or its rabbinic supervision,
need not separate teruma and ma'aser. This is so, based on
the presence of numerous halachic and factual doubts as to
the obligation to separate teruma outside of Israel. They are
as follows:

(a) Many authorities, cited above, rule as a matter of
halacha that outside Israel one never needs to separate
teruma;

(b) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's factual analysis rules that one
need not separate teruma from fruit purchased in the market
even in Israel, since the fruit might come from Gentile
farmers or areas outside halachic Israel that are part of
Israel's political boundaries;

(c) According to some authorities, fruits produced
exclusively for export do not need to have teruma separated
from them.

(d) The fruits might have left Israel prior to ripening and
thus gemar melacha occurred outside Israel;

(e) The produce might already have had teruma separated
by Israeli rabbis;

(f) For the year 5754 (1993-1994) there might be no obligation
because it is a shemita year.

Particularly since fruits and vegetables are currently
obligated in teruma and ma'aser only rabbinically, even in
Israel proper, the presence of these many factors is enough
to eliminate completely the obligation outside of Israel. One
who wishes to be strict in this matter and separate teruma
and ma'aser without a blessing should do so.

This is a case of multiple factual and halachic doubts
concerning a rabbinic prohibition, and thus it is proper to
rule permissively according to halacha.




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