Avodah Mailing List

Volume 27: Number 133

Sun, 27 Jun 2010

• 1. Re: Lo Sachmod (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Lemino/leminehu (Micha Berger)
• 3. Re: Lo Sachmod (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 4. Re: better not to have been born (T6...@aol.com)
• 5. rosh in spain (Shlomo H. Pick)
• 6. Even More on Volcanos and Miracles (Yitzchok Levine)
• 7. Re: Lo Sachmod (Micha Berger)
• 8. mah tovu (Saul.Z.New...@kp.org)
• 9. Re: mah tovu (Micha Berger)
• 10. Fw: Partnership Minyanim by Aryeh and Dov Frimer (Prof. Aryeh A. Frimer)

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:51:34AM -0400, Moshe Y. Gluck wrote:
: Also, how does the Ibn Ezra jive with the Sifra (Kedoshim) that says that R'
: EBA sad that a person should not say, "I don't want to wear Shaatnez,"
: rather he should say, "I want to, but my father in heaven decreed upon me
: that I can not!"?

What does R' Yisrael Salanter do? He makes a chiluq between kibush hayeitzer,
doing the right thing despite taavos otherwise, and tiqun hayeitzer, which
is getting the taavos in line. (And primarily a consequence of the hergel
set up by kibush).

The Rambam is usually explained as making a chiluq between mitzvos sichlios
and shim'iyos. IOW, the Sifrei bedavqa applies to shaatnez or maachalos
asuros, but not to something people have a native understanding of, like
ayaros.

Which touches upon the same topic as my previous post -- this chiluq
also presumes an external morality.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             You will never "find" time for anything.
mi...@aishdas.org        If you want time, you must make it.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Charles Buxton
Fax: (270) 514-1507

RGDubin asked:
> Can someone point me to a consistent and reasonably simple explanation of
> why the Torah switched, for trees, from lemino at the tzivui, to leminehu
> at the creation.  In general, an explanation of what these terms mean
> specifically would be appreciated.

There is a similar issue in Vayiqra 11. E.g. pasuq 22 "... es ha'arbeh
lemino, ve'es hasale'um lemineihu..." On 11:13 Rashi says that lemino
describes a min that has no subtypes, and lemineihu is where "yeish
be'oso hamin she'ein domin zeh lazeh, lo bemar'eihem velo bishmosam,
vekhulan min echad".

It is hard to argue the same thing here, since the same trees that
were commanded to exist lemino is the same ones lemineihem. There was
no introduction of subtypes between the two pesuqim, although there is
still the implied plurality. *Perhaps* referring to the separation of
tree and fruit with "eitz peri" turning into "eitz oseh peri". Thus each
min of tree became two sub-types -- tree vs fruit.

There is a derashah on this, lehalakhah. "Lemino" tells you that it's
assur to create a tangelo from a tangerine and a grapefruit. But
lemineihem says that HQBH has no problem with the tree keeping its
murkav minim once it does exist. So you are allowed to gro a tangelo
from a tangelo.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller

R' MB:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:51:34AM -0400, Moshe Y. Gluck wrote:
: Also, how does the Ibn Ezra jive with the Sifra (Kedoshim) that says that
R'
: EBA sad that a person should not say, "I don't want to wear Shaatnez,"
: rather he should say, "I want to, but my father in heaven decreed upon me
: that I can not!"?

What does R' Yisrael Salanter do? He makes a chiluq between kibush
hayeitzer,
doing the right thing despite taavos otherwise, and tiqun hayeitzer, which
is getting the taavos in line. (And primarily a consequence of the hergel
set up by kibush).

The Rambam is usually explained as making a chiluq between mitzvos sichlios
and shim'iyos. IOW, the Sifrei bedavqa applies to shaatnez or maachalos
asuros, but not to something people have a native understanding of, like
ayaros.
--------------


that your p'shat won't answer my question as the Sifra specifically uses
these three examples: 1) Shaatnez 2) Chazir 3) _Lavo Al Ha'ervah_. You can
see for yourself here, Perek 9, Halachah 10:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14026&;st=&pgnum=222&hilite=

KT,
MYG

 

From: Micha Berger _micha@aishdas.org_ (mailto:mi...@aishdas.org) 

>>...That's  R' Elazar on Pesachim 87b, using the lashon "Lo hiflah HQBH es
Yisrael levein  ha'umos ela kedei sheyosifu lahem geirim."

And yet we know there are  other reasons, such as our needing an
onesh.

Why does R"E use such  absolute language? <<

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

 
>>>>>
 
"Lo asah X eleh kedei she Y" or "eleh mipnei she Y" is a very common  
formulation in old Hebrew -- there are dozens of examples in Rashi on the  
Chumash,  generally quoting Chazal -- and is just the way the language  works.  It 
is not meant to be understood literally as "this is  absolutely the one and 
only reason why."  It's just an  expression.
 
--Toby Katz
==========

--------------------
 



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I would like to comment on the following:
<<PS.   One of the Maharam's students was the Rosh, who later fled  to Spain
and  taught Torah there, resulting in the cross-fertilization of Torah
between the  Ashkenazic and Sephardic communities (not the only time such
cross-fertilization  occurred, of course).>>

This isd a common fallacy. Actually the Rosh was relatively little influenced
by sephardic halacha. His yeshiva in Toledo continued for many years
fairly isolated from the surrounding sephardic community.
 eli then referenced ta shma

with all due respect this is simply incorrect!
first of all we are talking about cross-fertilization and rosh certainly
influenced Spanish Jewry. see the list of spaniards who communicated with
him in freimann's biography.
one simple example is r, yeruham's meisharim.  and see urbach's article about spanish influence on codification. 

but I would like to mention spanish influence on rosh. I recall an article
in hebrew in HUCA in he 50s I think that analyzed spanish quotations in
tos. rosh to brachos.
a simple search in responsa project turns up around 180 references to
ramban in piskei rosh. around 40 ramahs, 63 r. yonahs. 3 rashbas.   results
in his tosfot, eg 4 rashbas, only 26 rambans, 8 yonahs,  20 ramahs. it may
be that rosh did posken like them, but he quotes them and deals with the
problems they raised. isn't that cross fertilization?
what text is the basis of rosh's pesakim? not the talmud but the alfasi code - standard feature in provence and spain.  isn't that cross fertilization?
the tur quotes these spanish rishonim and tho he may pasken like his father, the fact he quotes them leaves it open for someone else to pasken like them.
I will add that rosh sought out a tutor to teach him astronomy, and his
student isaac israeli penned a monograph for him with a dedication to rosh.
now that would appear to be cross fertlization.

see the more up to date articles in english and hebrew by judah/yehuda galinsky.
shabbat shalom
shlomo
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On June 16. 2010 (Avodah Digest, Vol 27, Issue 
131) I posted some comments about what I termed 
"miracle" stories. My motivation for this post 
was the fact that the Hamodia Magazine had 
published a story about a young man who received 
a liver transplant in Belgium because flights 
were cancelled due to the eruption of a volcano 
in Iceland.  I indicated that I am not in favor 
of what I consider a preoccupation with "miracle" 
stories.  I consider this an important issue, and 
this is the reason for this post. YL

The Hamodia Magazine published my letter 
expressing my views on "miracle" stories. It may 
be read at http://tinyurl.com/2wwmp4n and I included this link in my post.

In this week's Hamodia Magazine there is a 
response to my letter by A. C. Carmell. I have 
posted this letter at 
http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/hamodia/volcano_response.pdf

I then wrote another letter to the Editor of the Hamodia Magazine.

To the Editor:

I read with surprise A. C. Carmell's letter in 
this week's Hamodia Magazine that criticizes my 
letter that appeared in last week's Magazine 
under the heading More on Volcanos and Miracles.

My surprise is not because he or she does not 
agree with me, but because I would have thought 
that the Hamodia Magazine would have given me the 
opportunity to respond to A. C. Carmell's letter 
before it appeared. Should not one have the 
opportunity to respond to his critics, 
particularly when the criticism aimed at him is made public?

Be this as it may, let me point out the 
following. A neighbor of mine has first hand 
knowledge of the incident in question. She told 
me that she is not at all happy about the way 
this incident was portrayed both by the Hamodia 
and other publications. "The volcano is only one 
small piece of the story. To focus on it and 
exclude all of the other things that occurred is an injustice."

A. C. Carmel wrote,  "It takes a lifetime of 
contemplation of the words of the Ramban to 
achieve this (appreciating acts of Hashgacha 
Pratis). The countless incidents of clear 
hashgacha one encounters in his lifetime are what 
bring home to him vividly the fact that Hashem 
really does rule the affairs of the world."

I certainly agree with this. However, these 
incidents have to be clear hashgacha, not some 
partial recounting of a story that leaves out the 
essence of what occurred and focuses on "one 
small piece of the story."  Unless one has the 
entire picture, one runs the risk of focusing on 
the Tofel and ignoring the Ikar.   More often 
than not the stories that are circulated are not 
based on hard facts and, even if they 
are,  probably do not give the entire 
picture.  Indeed, how are we to get the entire 
picture unless we have first hand knowledge 
and/or speak with someone who has this knowledge?

On the other hand, the miracle of a baby being 
born is, in my opinion, a clear miracle that is 
verified every time it occurs. Why focus on 
stories that may have questionable authenticity 
and/or leave out key parts of what happened when 
one has all of the daily miracles that occur in our lives?

Professor Yitzchok Levine

My oldest son, Rabbi Dovid Levine, after reading 
my letter and A. C. Carmell's letter, sent me the 
following which I have also sent to the Hamodia.

Hi Abba,

This letter is misguided and it is a strong 
support for your position. Instead of clarifying, 
the writer muddles, confuses, and misleads. His 
position reflects the mistaken, lazy approach to 
emunah prevalent. The Ramban says clearly that 
Hashem will NOT make miracles in every 
generation. That is why we have many reminders of 
Yetzias Mitzrayim, the major event that showed 
His hashgachah openly operating outside the laws 
of nature. By studying, reviewing, reinforcing, 
commemorating that singular event, we come to 
emunah that Hashem is mashgiach and controls 
everything. Why commemorate an event from 3000 
years ago if we can just open the Hamodia and 
read articles about ?open miracles? of nature obeying Hashem?s will?

Indeed, the way to increase emunah is to study 
this Ramban and all the other sources about 
emunah repeatedly, constantly, in depth. Rambam, 
Chovos HaLevavos, Sefer HaIkarim, Ramchal, down 
to Sifsei Chaim 
<h
ttp://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=978-159826-227-8>Fa
ith 
and Divine Providence (Feldheim translation of 
Emunah V?Hashgacha volume 1) in our generation. 
We also need to view every event we experience 
through that lens, and make choices that conform 
to that perspective. That is emunah in action, 
otherwise known as bitachon (Chazon Ish Emunah 
U?Bitachon Sec. 2). We will not reach emunah and 
bitachon by repeating feel-good tales, which only 
credit the warm and fuzzy experiences to Hashem. 
People tell these stories, and LOSE their faith 
when they experience that real life is not a 
Just-So story, that Hashem does not answer every 
prayer. Bad happens to good people, and most of 
the effects of volcanoes give us reason to cry, 
not rejoice. These stories weaken our faith that 
ALL events, good and bad, come from Hashem. I 
merited pulling a sickly young man from the brink 
of apikorsus bez?H by forcing him to accept that 
indeed his life is hell, and that Hashem, whose 
ways are inscrutable, created that hell for him. 
I think these stories weaken emunah. The Chazon 
Ish was insistent that bitachon means everything 
is in Hashem?s control, not that everything will 
turn out good. He calls ?positive payoff? 
bitachon an old, mistaken belief. (Emunah U?Bitachon Sec. 2)

Chazal indeed fixed a blessing for parents to 
make on the birth of a child ? Shehechiyanu or 
Hatov v'hamativ. We also say Elokai Neshamah and 
Mechaye HaMeisim each morning to thank Hashem for 
keeping us alive. At weddings, we bless Hashem 
?Who formed man?. We thank Hashem daily for 
vision, clothes, bodily functions, and 
intelligence, none of which is an open miracle. 
On the other hand, ?One who recites Hallel 
everyday is mecharef and megadef - blasphemes and 
reproaches [the Divine Name]? (Shabbos 118b). 
This is because such a person does not display a 
differentiation between Teva and nes. If every 
day is a Hallel day, he precludes the 
demonstration that on certain days Hashem 
suspended nature. This, in essence, says Hashem 
CANNOT suspend nature. See Rashi and Maharsha. 
Rather, the Gemara continues, one should say 
Pesukei D'Zimrah every day. This ?Hallel? 
reflects on all of nature doing Hashem?s will.

Another Gemara (Berachos 33b and Megillah 25a) 
states that we silence one who says, ?Recall 
Hashem?s name for the good He does?. By focusing 
solely on the good, this person suggests that he 
does not associate His name with bad. We need to 
bless G-d for both good and bad. The constant 
barrage of stories of ?good? hashgachah goes 
against this principle. When was the last time 
you read an article or heard someone express how 
bashert it was that something DID NOT work out 
how he or she wanted? ?I had to park four blocks 
away from the store and walk in the pouring rain 
only to find the store was out of the product I 
needed. It?s ?mamesh? min Hashomayim!? (The 
stories in which one sees in retrospect how 
everything was for the best do not count.)

The sad error of this person?s thinking is 
obvious in his words: ?Stories of hashgachah 
don't create such a burden because one can always 
attribute them to chance -minhago shel alam, 
Hashem's regular way of running the world, if one 
feels that Hashem wouldn't do something like that 
for a particular individual.? This borders on 
kefirah. WE ASSIGN NOTHING TO CHANCE. There are 
different arrangements in which Hashem decides 
what should happen to a person (for example 
hashgacha kelalis and peratis), and He has 
different methods of imposing that hashgachah, 
but there is no ?chance?. Such a statement 
results from a superficial understanding of 
darkei Hashem, which stems in part from relying 
on hashgachah pratis columns for our 
understanding of emunah rather than learning the sources in depth.

The issue is subtle and refined, and needs more 
intense thought than most people are willing to 
invest. People are also strongly influenced by 
the media bent toward feel-good stories designed 
to increase readership and suggest an aura of 
righteousness. Who wants to read that their lives 
may not turn out as rosy as they wish, and that 
hashgachah is almost never obvious?

May we merit to have and to influence the world to have true emunah.

Dovid


     
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RMYG upshlugged my teirutz of how the IE's advice of avoiding even
the desire for arayos by casting it as unreachable as the hand of the
princess with the Sifra that says we should have the attitude "Ifshi,
ma a'aseh, ve'Avi shebashayim gazar alai".

In the same post, though, he quotes me and comments:
:> What does R' Yisrael Salanter do? He makes a chiluq between kibush hayeitzer,
:> doing the right thing despite taavos otherwise, and tiqun hayeitzer, which
:> is getting the taavos in line. (And primarily a consequence of the hergel
:> set up by kibush).

> I'd like to see what R' Yisroel Salanter says in the source...

It's a recurring theme in Or Yisrael, but I don't have it at my fingertips
that I can find a long description. The following is Immanuel Etkes's
translation of a snippet from Kisvei RYS, pg 165 (taken from his "R Israel
Salanter", pg 294):

    There are two kinds of [character] transmutation: one, in which man
    turns the powers of his soul to the good, so that the power of evil
    is totally uprooted and not seen at all. To accomplish this, it is
    insufficient for man to improve his general will, to long for the
    good and to despise evil, but he must seek the means of correcting
    each individual trait of his soul. This is required in the case of
    the rational [ethically self-evident] commandments, pertaining to
    man and his fellow.... The second way involves the "transmutation"
    of his general will, to love and to heed that which comes out from
    the mouth of God in the traditional commandments [ritual or ceremonial
    law reflecting arbitrary, Divine will] known to us by revelation, and
    to seek out and reduce the power of the appetite in each detail....

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller

on why it  is written chasser  ,  2 thoughts   one  i saw , one i'm 
thinking  about

1]   this  passuk is said on entereing  our  mkom  tfila.  since bilaam 
forsaw that  we would not  treat our shuls  with enough  respect  , 
therefor  chaser

2]   this bracha  folllowed   'vayar yisrrael shochen lishvatav '  . only 
then could  such  a  bracha follow [the one that bilaam never intended as 
a curse] 

but the former passuk implies  that   he saw shvatim with different 
drachim in yiddishkeit   living  in harmony.  since  bilaam knew that this 

is  something 

that jews  can not  tolerate , therefore  tovu is chasser  , since 
toleration of other yisrael's ohel will never  be  complete.....

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On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:08:23AM -0700, Saul.Z.New...@kp.org wrote:
: on why it is written chasser, 2 thoughts: one i saw, one i'm thinking
: about

Nice thoughts. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the question works.

/TBW/ appears in Tanakh twice -- here and Shir haShirim 4:10.

/TWBW/ appears 3 times, but all three are "tuvo", not "tovu". (Hoshea 3:5,
Zekhariah 9:17, Iyov 20:21).

So it would seem to be written chaseir simply because that's normal
spelling of the word. There is no abnormality to darshen.

Of course, with only two examples, that's pretty hard for me to assert
too strongly...

It might be related to the loss of the yud in "tzitz" when it becomes
"tzitzis" /SSYT/ and the vav in "luach" when it becomes "luchos" /LCVT/.
There too, only the second vowel is malei. If so, the counterexample of
"tuvo" might help explain this issue that Mesorah members must be
tired of me raising every 18 mo or so.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man is equipped with such far-reaching vision,
mi...@aishdas.org        yet the smallest coin can obstruct his view.
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

Dear Friends,
    You are cordially invited to read our new paper, "The View of Rav
    Joseph B. Soloveitchik zt?l on the Ordination of Women," published June
    23, 2010 on "Text and Texture" of the Rabbinical Council of America;
    available online at http://text.rcarabbis.org/?p=9
    58.  For your convenience, a slightly updated version of this
    article as a word.doc  is attached.
        Kol Tuv
                Aryeh
--------------------------------
Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer
Ethel and David Resnick Professor
   of Active Oxygen Chemistry
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900, ISRAEL
E-mail: Fri...@mail.biu.ac.il
Tel: 972-3-5318610; Fax: 972-3-7384053
Tel Home: 972-8-9473819/9470834
Cellphone: 972-54-7540761
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