Avodah Mailing List

Volume 25: Number 436

Mon, 29 Dec 2008

• 1. priorities in halacha and meat on shabbos (Tzvi Haber)
• 2. Vayigash Zos Chanukah (Cantor Wolberg)
• 3. Re: pach hashemen (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 4. Re: priorities in halacha (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 5. Modern Day Sifrei Torahs (Harvey Benton)
• 6. aesthetics (Eli Turkel)
• 7. Returning Madoff's tainted money (Saul Stokar)

if my memory serves me right the MB in the beginning of Hilchos Shabbos says
the eating fish on shabbos thing is assuming one enjoys fish.
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45:3  Ani Yosef... 'I am Joseph...'

When Joseph said 'I am Joseph,' God's master plan became clear to the  
brothers.
They had no more questions. Everything that had happened for the last  
twenty-two
years fell into perspective. So, too, will it be in the time to come  
when God will reveal
Himself and announce, 'Ani HaShem', 'I am the Lord!'  The veil will be  
lifted from our
eyes and we will comprehend everything that transpired throughout  
history. (Chofetz Chayim)

Following this analogy, just as Joseph forgave his brothers,  may we  
be so fortunate that
HaShem forgives His children. Nevertheless, some individual's  
comprehension of what
transpired in their lives may be fraught with pain and condemnation  
whereas others'
comprehension will be filled with joy and vindication.

May we strive for the latter group.

rw

R' Eli Turkel:
> Hence, this quoted verison of megillat taanait does not mention the
> miracle of
> the oil.
> Note that megillat taanait was composed towards the end of bayit sheni and
> so is the first written word since Tanach and precedes the writing of
> the Mishna by
> some 150-200 years

I was thinking that maybe they didn't bother recording the Neis of the Pach
Shemen because they were Melumad in Nisim in the Beis Hamikdash - like the
Mishnah in Avos and the Gemara in Yuma record. In the context of the daily
Nisim in the Beis HaMikdash, the miracle of the war victory was much bigger
than the miracle of the Pach Shemen, and Chazal didn't see fit to record it
until later generations who were forgetting about the Neis of the Pach
Shemen.

KT,
MYG

> Danny Schoemann wrote:
> > Q: Is it an obligation to have a silver chanukiyah?
> >
> > Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 139:5 - If one can afford it, one should buy a
> > silver Menorah to beautify the Mitzva.
R' ZS:
> Isn't it a little strange for a sefer halacha to impose a particular
> aesthetic as if the author's tastes were universal?

I think we've discussed before that the KSA was written for a specific
community. I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that R' Shlomo
Ganzfried knew that in his community the norm was that silver Menorahs were
considered beautiful.

KT,
MYG

A number of sources indicate that the Sifrei Torahs we now
have in our possession may not be the exact (letter for letter) same one as was
given to Moshe Rabeinu:

?

Yerushalmi Taanit 4:2 and Soferim 6:4 mention an episode
where 3 Sifrei Torah were found in the Azara of the Second Temple
with varying texts. They used the majority rule of 2 out of 3 to determine
accuracy going forward.? This method
worked Halachically (perhaps bidieved), but it does not guarantee that
resultant Sifrei Torot was/are free of errors.

?

Kiddusin 30a mentions the Vav of Gachon as the middle letter
of the Torah.? Also discussed there are the
exact number of words and verses in the Torah.??
For our purposes, what comes out, is that at the very least, that at the
time of the Gemara they were not expert in chaser and yeter. 

?

The Rambam in Hil. ST, 8:4 wrote about scrolls that had been
corrected using the Ben-Asher scroll that he himself used.

The Rama writes in Sefer Mesoret Syag Latorah, that the
scrolls in their possession were in great disaccord.

Rabbi Yom Tov Lippman in Tikkun Sefer Torah writes that the
scribes in his day were ignoramuses and that the scholars were paying no
attention to the matter. 

Tosafot on Shabbas 55b says that the Sifrei Torot (Sefarim)
at the time of the Gemara were different than what Tosafot had.? 

?

There are also many places in Nach and Talmud, where verses
in the Torah are quoted differently when compared to our versions of Torah
texts.? Rashba (att. to Ramban 232, mentioned
by Gil Student) says that Sifrei Torah should not be changed to reflect different
versions as quoted in the Talmud.? This
shows that at least there was discussion of variant readings at the time. 

?

Gil Student 2001 in Parshas Vayera Challenge and other
sources on Tikkun Soferim indicate that the Ktav of the Torah (Ktave Ivrit or
Ktav Ahsurit) nowadays may be different that what was given to Moshe Rabeinu.? Also brought down is that Rashi and Rashba
may have understood that the Soferim actually made changes to Torah texts, for
various reasons.

?

Halachic issues such as making a bracha on a Sefer Torah
(ST) by a sofer writing it, making a bracha on an Aliya, reading a pasul ST
publicly on Shabbas (Rashba and R. Asher hold there is no justification and no
purpose in doing so), and fulfilling the mitzvah of writing a ST in cases of
doubt are all discussed, and for the most part ruled leniently upon. ??See Shulchan Aruch OC 143:4, and Mishna
Berura.

?

A number of Halachic Issues however that I have not seen or
heard of discussed include:

?

Yemenite ST:? The Yemenite ST has at least 3 differences
(some say 9) when compared to our ST.?
They make a bracha on reading the Torah, and so do we.? They may (I do not know) say Zot Hatorah
during Hagbah, while we for sure do.? Is
this incongruous?? How can we (and
perhaps they) both claim to have a correct version at the same time?

?

If someone from a Sefardi or Ashkenazi background, davened
at a Yemenite minyan, would he be allowed to make a Bracha on an Aliya, seeing
as his mesorah is different?? Would he
have to fast if CV a ST was dropped in front of him?? (According to Sfardi/Ashkenazi tradition, the
Yemenite ST
should be viewed as Pasul, and thus perhaps not necessitating a fast.)

?

Rambam Pr. No. 8 and Zot Hatorah said during Hagbah, both
state that the ST we have today is the same as that was given to Moshe
Rabeinu.? If we say either of these two
statements, and/or teach them to our children or Baalei Teshuvot (Aish Hatorah
is big on Rambam No. 8), are we (or the Yemenites or both) not over on 1.
Midvar Sheker Tirchak 2. Ganeivas Daat and 3. Lifnei Iver (in the sense that
they may tell it to someone else) if in fact it turns out that someone does not
have an accurate (to the letter) ST? 

?

We are not doubting that the essence of the ST that we have
today is the same as what Moshe Rabeinu had, but only that in actual Letters
and/or Script, it may not be 100% ?exactly the same.? 

?

Finally, should a Sofer be required, in advance to inform
potential purchasers of ST and/or his services, about the current situation
regarding ST?? Should he be required to
fully disclose, that the person purchasing a ST may only be fulfilling the
mitzvah to write a ST in a Bidieved manner??
If he does not fully disclose this, is the resultant sale tainted?

?

Happy Zot Chanukah?.

?

Note: I checked as many sources as I could, but some I
brought down only second hand, mostly from AishDas and YUTorah.org.
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> Isn't it a little strange for a sefer halacha to impose
> a particular aesthetic as if the author's tastes were
> universal?
>>I *wish* it were strange. Unfortunately, it seems all too common. A classic example is eating meat on Shabbos.
>>I have seen recent "seforim" prescribe the sort of tablecloths and dinner utensils which should be used or avoided on Shabbos.
I wish these authors would preface their words with something like,
"In our communities, these things tend to be considered more
beautiful..." >>

A more fundamental question that has bothered me for a long time. The
gemara says there shouldn't be trees
outside of the walls of a city since that ruins the beauty.
Today most people would feel that trees beautify an area especially in
places like outside the old walls
of Yerushalayim. Are these type of laws dependent on the local concept
of beauty?

-- 
Eli Turkel

Does anyone know of a halachic precedent that would require those who made
money by investing in Madoff's fund to return some or all of their
ill-gotten gains to those who lost money? After all, if you purchase a
stolen item (even unwittengly) from a thief (before ye'ush i.e. before the
owner abandons hope of getting it back) you have to return the item to its
owner. Clearly there are differences between a stolen object and an
investment with one of Madoff's funds (e.g. the investment was given to be
used (lehotza'a mitna) rather than as a deposit (pikadon)). None the less,
due to the pyramidal nature of the (alleged) fraud, the profits of the early
investors come directly from the pockets of the latecomers.

Saul Stokar
Raanana, Israel
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