Avodah Mailing List

Volume 25: Number 409

Mon, 08 Dec 2008

• 1. Re: menorah on a plane (Zev Sero)
• 2. Re: menorah on a plane (Rich, Joel)
• 3. Re: R' Akiva (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: R' Akiva (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: R' Akiva (Ira Tick)
• 6. Re: Questions as a Result of the Flatbush Lakewood Shabbos (Mike Miller)
• 7. Re: Sephardi-ism: some food for thought (David Riceman)
• 8. Property of a Righteous Person (Yitzchok Levine)
• 9. Re: Questions as a Result of the Flatbush Lakewood Shabbos (Akiva Blum)
• 10. Re: Questions as a Result of the Flatbush Lakewood Shabbos (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: menorah on a plane (Micha Berger)
• 12. Re: Power of shofet/reish gluta (Micha Berger)
• 13. Re: effects of religous worship on health (Micha Berger)
• 14. Re: Questions as a Result of the Flatbush Lakewood (T6...@aol.com)

Eli Turkel wrote:
> According to the psak of R' Yosef Sholom Elyashiv one should not light
> a Menorah on a train, or airplane, even if permitted to do so by the
> service staff.
> Kovetz Mevakshei Torah Kislev 5756 205:5, Halichos Yosef 677:1

Does he say why?

-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
z...@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                                                  - Clarence Thomas

According to the psak of R' Yosef Sholom Elyashiv one should not light a
Menorah on a train, or airplane, even if permitted to do so by the
service staff.
Kovetz Mevakshei Torah Kislev 5756 205:5, Halichos Yosef 677:1

--
Eli Turkel
_______________________________________________
The continuation was :
680. An earlier psak by the Maharsham that allowed lighting on a train
was meant for that place and time when it was not uncommon to travel on
a train for 3 days or more.
S'U Maharsham 4:146, Halichos Yosef 677:1 


Anyone care to posit the difference ?

KT
Joel Rich
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Micha Berger wrote:

> In the Y-mi the spelling is (usually? always?) with a hei.
> 
> However, straight grammar... Aqiva is an Aramaic variant of "Ya'aqov".
> Aramaic uses alef for the mater lexionis of a final qamatz. A hei would
> be Hebrew.

However in the time of the Y'mi they spoke Aramaic in EY as well as in
Bavel -- just a different dialect of Aramaic.

Consider that in the Y'mi Yehuda is spelled with an alef at the end
(and there are those who spell it that way today, based on this Y'mi).

-- 
Zev Sero                at Detroit Metro airport
z...@sero.name

On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 6:47am EST, R Zev Sero replied to me:
:>In the Y-mi the spelling is (usually? always?) with a hei.
:>However, straight grammar... Aqiva is an Aramaic variant of "Ya'aqov".
:>Aramaic uses alef for the mater lexionis of a final qamatz. A hei would
:>be Hebrew.

: However in the time of the Y'mi they spoke Aramaic in EY as well as in
: Bavel -- just a different dialect of Aramaic.

True, as Mel Gibson knew as well.

You eliminated the possibility that in EY they did it because Hebrew words
end "-ah" for a qamatz. I wasn't suggesting that possibility, since I
opened with the notion that "Aqiva" is an Aramaic derivative of "Ya'aqov".

Last time I posted I was just trying to give sevaros to either side: The
Y-mi is more likely to reflect how Yosef and his wife would have spelled
their son's name. And the Bavli reflects the norm for Aramaic. However,
I found a rationale for ending in a hei even in Aramit.

The name Aqivah (with a hei) is described by some to be a reduced version
of Aqavyah, as in Aqavyah ben Mehallalel. Much like the Hebrew example
of my own name (Mikhah), as opposed to Mikhayahu (and the two are used
interchangably in the navi).

Apparently the rav RAM spoke to recognized his inherent G-dliness and
couldn't see that his parents would have omitted it from his name.
(Whether the rav realized that's what he was doing or not.)


: Consider that in the Y'mi Yehuda is spelled with an alef at the end
: (and there are those who spell it that way today, based on this Y'mi).

I think that's entirely different, and more along the lines of my
chassidishe melamedim who spelled Yehudah without the second letter
(c.f. "Judah"), and often with a final alef (yud-vav-dalet-alef). Yehudah
is very close to sheim havayah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It isn't what you have, or who you are, or where
mi...@aishdas.org        you are,  or what you are doing,  that makes you
http://www.aishdas.org   happy or unhappy. It's what you think about.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Dale Carnegie

Speaking of lo bashomayim hi...

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Moshe Y. Gluck <mgl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> IIRC, the Shaalos Uteshuvos Min Hashamayim also (in a Teshuvah) spells it
> with a Hei.
>
> KT,
> MYG
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
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>



-- 
Ira Tick
6519 N Whipple
Chicago, IL 60645
(414) 699-8285

itick1...@gmail.com
it...@iit.edu
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On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Sun, 12/7/08, T6...@aol.com <T6...@aol.com> wrote:
> TK:   He probably concentrates on his own tefilla to the extent that he was
> not aware that others were waiting for him.  And maybe it does some baale
> batim good just once in a while to see a person take his time to say each
> and every word with care.
> ===================================
> What does this say about R. Yisroel Salanter who hurried his Teffila so he
> wouldn't be a Tircha D'Tzibura?

It says that a Rav must know his tzibbur. It also says that to blindly
copy a historical story, any story, is a recipe for failure.

Both personalities here can obviously teach important lessons, and
both are necessary. Which applies when and where can not be decided in
an international online forum.

-- Mike Miller
Ramat Bet Shemesh

Chana Luntz wrote:
> Well it is more than that, because, stepping back from the
> Askenazi/Sephardi divide, the question really becomes - to what extent
> is it appropriate to ignore what has previously been said.  The argument
> for those who list shitos is that we stand on the shoulders of giants,
> so how can we not take what they say into account - and so even if you
> want to disagree based on lomdus, it is important to grapple with those
> of your forebears and contemporaries who appear to say differently (or
> to find comfort from those that disagree).
>   
I wonder whether the importance of precedent has anything to do with it, 
in which case I'd expect to find towns (or whatever the unit of custom 
is) which generate their own Rabbanim more interested in precedent than 
towns where Rabbis are imports.

David Riceman

The following is from the new translation of 
RSRH's commentary on Chumash Bereishis on 32: 25 
Ya?akov was left alone, and someone wrestled with him until the break of day.

According to our Sages, nistyar al pachim k'tanim  (Chullin 91a): After he
brought everything across, he returned to see whether something had
been forgotten. And to this they add: mekan l'tzadikim shechaviv alayhem
m'monom yoser m'goofom v'kol kach lamah l'fee 
sheain poshtin yadeihen b'gezel (ibid.).

Property that a righteous person acquires honestly ? even
something of the slightest value ? is sacred in his sight. He will not
squander it or allow it to go to waste, and he is held responsible for its
proper use. A vast sum is like a shoelace to him, when he gives up this
sum for the sake of a good cause; but a shoelace is like a vast sum to
him, if it is about to be wasted for no reason or purpose. A person who
is not poshat  yado b'gezel, who calls his own 
only what he has acquired through
honest effort, will see the graces of God?s providence in every possession
that he acquires; everything that he owns ? even the very smallest
possession ? has come to him through honest sweat and toil and
through God?s blessing, and hence is of inestimable value.
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--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Yitzchok Levine <Larry.Lev...@stevens.edu> wrote:

I davened with the Maariv minyan at which the Rosh Yeshiva davened...When it came to Shemoneh Esrei, it took the Rosh Yeshiva a long time to daven. 
-------------



Akiva

I think it's a little difficult to take a raayah from RSRH or from RYS
and ask a question on a rav from a different derekh.

It's one thing for me to say that I find myself more moved to "hihaleikh
lefanai veheyei samim" by RYS's derekh. Or that I find it easier to pursue
qedushah by learning how to utilize chol than through trying to minimize
contact with it (an understanding of perishus or at least histapkus).
It's another to ask a qyestion on someone else.

Of course they behave differently -- they're taking a different path up
the mountain.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When you come to a place of darkness,
mi...@aishdas.org        you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org   You light a candle.
Fax: (270) 514-1507        - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l

If the staff allows, and one can assume there are Jews on the vehicle
who could use every little bit of chizuq, would RSZA tell the person to
light without a berakhah?

IOW, is it a problem in the qiyum hamitzvah, or a problem doing it
altogether?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When memories exceed dreams,
mi...@aishdas.org        The end is near.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Rav Moshe Sherer
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 09:23:52AM -0500, Rich, Joel wrote:
: Rambam Sanhedrin 4:13 claims that "Roshei galuyot bbavel bmkom melech
: hein omdim." It's certainly a fascinating assertion - what does bmkom
: mean?

As I recently posted on the subject of "da'as Torah", R' Dovid Cohen
(haLevi, of Gevul Yaavetz in Flatbush) uses this as a maqor for an
obligation to listen to gedolei Torah in non-halachic matters. Not that
"da'as Torah" means they're always right, but that their quasi-melekh
status means that one is obligated to listen to them on communal matters.
Note that this formulation does not naturally include asking personal
advice (e.g. career issues that aren't directly about halakhah or one's
avodas Hashem). This is more a communal leadership concept.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The trick is learning to be passionate in one's
mi...@aishdas.org        ideals, but compassionate to one's peers.
http://www.aishdas.org
Fax: (270) 514-1507

I suggest people read RAF's blog entry (and not simply because he quotes
me) about tefillos that don't seem to get answered.

See "Can Prayer Fail Us?"
<http://ariefolger.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/can-prayer-fail-us/>

> stems from the understanding that prayer is about asking for what we
> want - and getting it. Theologically, however, such an understanding
> of prayer is difficult....

> Praying is not about being like the bashful child sweetly asking an
> undeserved favor from his parent, but is a most serious matter; it is
> about engaging in a most personal way in the service of G?d. The
> Talmud calls it ... service of the heart and stresses that it
> is our heartful expression of our love of G-d...

> Rabbi Chaim Volozhin, in his Nefesh haChayim, goes one step further
> and stresses that ideally, we should not pray for anything specific,
> but rather for bringing general blessing to the world - Shefa,,,

> Clearly, prayer is first and foremost an intense act of self
> transformation. Indeed, if our prayers fail to arouse us, if they fail
> to elevate our souls, perhaps we have muted and even deadened our
> words of prayer, robbing them of their effect, by not preparing
> ourselves to change....

> But is prayer primarily really about praying for particular, well
> defined things? Some would say so, and our duty and long standing
> tradition to intensify our prayers... at times of distress, supports
> such a conception of prayer. The tractate Ta'anit we quoted above,
> is full of halakhot regarding special fast and prayer days decreed in
> response to looming tragedy.

> However, Rabbi Chayim Volozhin remarkably claims that prayer is mostly
> not about bringing about particular effects, but rather about bringing
> undiscriminate blessing to the world, or at least to a larger geographic
> area. When we engage in prayer, we effectively join our Creator in
> sustaining the world, by bringing abundant goodness to the world. 
...

Much more there, including the contradictory results achieved by various
studied of intercessory prayer.

Please read the blog entry before reading this reply.





I understand that RAF was writing as a pulpit rabbi, and wanting to
stress an answer to what bothers people, but...

I disagree with his playing fown the role of simply turning to Abba.
Extrapolating from the Gra, I formulated Jewish prayer as being three
distinct mitzvos:
    - qeri'as Shema
    - tefillah -- the reflexive, hitpa'el, of lehispallel, that RAF
      describes
    - tachanunim -- the raw crying out to one's Father, to the Beloved,
      when in pain. As in those books of Yiddish techines many of our
      grandmothers had. Or "kol ha'oseh tefillaso qeva, lo asa tefilaso
      tachanunim."

You can search the list archives for "tefillah tachanunim" and save
everyone sitting through a repetition of the notion and its sources
at greater length.

RAF stressed the concept of tefillah, but did so by inadvertantly
playing down tachanunim. Or, to put it another way, his formulation is
too much "im ka'avadim" and not enough "im kevamim".

One reason we turn to G-d is the same as why an elderly person who is
suffering might cry out for "Mama". Not out of an expectation that
help will necessarily come (and in my mashal's case, they even know for
sure it won't) but because part of being an eved Hashem is developing
a personal relationship with Him.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When you come to a place of darkness,
mi...@aishdas.org        you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org   You light a candle.
Fax: (270) 514-1507        - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l

 
 
From: "Prof. Levine" _llevine@stevens.edu_ (mailto:llev...@stevens.edu) 

>> Does  not the fact that the Torah makes no mention of Yaakov learning 
in yeshiva  telling? If these years were more important, then I would 
have expected the  Torah to mention Yaakov's learning explicitly. I am 
sure there is an answer,  but I do not know it. <<

YL


 
>>>>>
The question you raise is legitimate and  interesting -- why doesn't the 
Torah mention the years that Yaakov spent  learning?   Indeed, why doesn't the 
Torah mention the Yeshiva of Shem  v'Ever anywhere? I'm sure there are good 
answers that could be  discussed on Avodah.   However, the inference you seem to be 
drawing  -- that the Torah does not consider Torah learning to be important 
-- is  certainly not warranted.




--Toby Katz
=============
"If you don't read the  newspaper you are uninformed; 
if you do read the newspaper you are  misinformed."
--Mark Twain
Read *Jewish World Review* at _http://jewishworldreview.com/_ 
(http://jewishworldreview.com/) 
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
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