Avodah Mailing List

Volume 25: Number 216

Sat, 07 Jun 2008

• 1. Re: Hashavat Aveida or Lifnei Iver? (Rich, Joel)
• 2. Mood of Tehillim (Harv Perchere)
• 3. Re: Mood of Tehillim (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: 2nd day Y"T (Daniel Eidensohn)
• 5. Re: D'rabanan vs. D'oraita (Rich, Joel)
• 6. Re: Hashavat Aveida or Lifnei Iver? (T613K@aol.com)
• 7. Re: Hashavat Aveida or Lifnei Iver? (Liron Kopinsky)
• 8. Re: Mood of Tehillim (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: Questions on sefer Rus (Micha Berger)
• 10. Re: One Reason for Reading Megillas Rus on Shavuos (Richard Wolpoe)

 

        One of the shabbatot in the last few weeks I spent in a hotel
for a shabbaton, and one of the people who I was rooming with left a
razor behind when they left.
        
        Is there a mitzvah of Hashavat Aveida, or can I not return it
because of the obvious halachik implications of using it?
        
        
        
        Kol Tuv,
        ~Liron
         =======================================================
         
        Do you know for a fact that it was a he (I hope so) and that he
used it for his face?  If not, why wouldn't there be a mitzvah of
hashavat aveida (and of general discussion of issues around shaving,
just in case)
        
        KT
        Joel Rich

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE.  Dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is 
strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.  
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20080606/a01cf07b/attachment-0001.htm>

>>We read them all as baqashos. But
is that the intent?
>>Perhaps a sizable role for saying Tehillim be'eis tzarah is for chizuq.

It seems it's much more of a bakasha at that moment in shul.
Certainly saying Tehillim for the sick or a dire R"L situation, is
clearly a bakasha.

What would some tunes be comprised of?

On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 08:19:08AM -0400, Harv Perchere wrote:
: > Perhaps a sizable role for saying Tehillim be'eis tzarah is for chizuq.
: 
: It seems it's much more of a bakasha at that moment in shul.

I know it does, because that's how we do it.

: Certainly saying Tehillim for the sick or a dire R"L situation, is
: clearly a bakasha.

"Certainly"? Why?

Why couldn't it be that Tehillim were said as an excercise in building
bitachon. Don't worry, the Rofei kol basar isd on the case!

: What would some tunes be comprised of?

Since it's sing-song either way, that's a hard question to answer.
Especially in a forum that doesn't allow for music notation. Something
more along the lines of majestic than of kumzitz music.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 47th day, which is
micha@aishdas.org        6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
Fax: (270) 514-1507               unity-how does it draw out one's soul?

23 Nisan 5766

*Keeping 1 or 2 days Yom Tov in Israel
Rabbi Jonathan Blass *

*Question:*
A tourist from America, is there any rationale for him keeping only 1 
day Yom Tov when in Israel?


*Answer:*
The Chacham Tzvi (Shu"t Chacham Tzvi 167) believes that even a tourist 
should observe only one day of Yom Tov when he is in Israel. The 
rationale for this is that even when the calendar was set month after 
month by the Sanhedrin on the basis of witnesses who testified to seeing 
the new moon, someone who lived far from Jerusalem would keep a second 
day of Yom Tov only on those Yamim Tovim when he was at home and did not 
know when the new moon was seen. In a year when he was in Israel he 
would keep one day. Today, if the entire community outside of israel 
moved to Israel it would keep only one day for this reason.
Most poskim did not accept the opinion of the Chacham Tzvi. Harav Shlomo 
Zalman Auerbach (Shu"t MInchat Shlomo I 19) explains the reason for 
this: the decision to keep a second day outside of Israel even at a time 
when the Jewish calendar is permanently set and no doubt exists anywhere 
in the world as to the Jewish date, binds the resident of "chutz 
laaretz" (lands outside of Israel) wherever he may be, even when he is 
in Israel.
One is commanded of course to come on aliya and keep one day. If however 
fulfilling this mitzva is for some reason impossible, a tourist should 
keep two days in Israel in line with the majority opinion.


Richard Wolpoe wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Rich, Joel <JRich@sibson.com 
> <mailto:JRich@sibson.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     *======================================*
>     *Question - I assume this is based on the Chacham Tzvi which iirc
>     was based on the makom being gorem so ben C"L doesn't observe 2nd
>     day in aretz but does that also mean that you're kovea your status
>     at the beginning of the day for the whole day so shinui makom
>     makes no difference (except in mazal :-)?
>
>     KT J*
>     *Joel Rich*
>
>  
> I know the Chacahm Zvi says this, but I cannot find the Teshuva [I 
> have  TWO editions  BTW]
> Does anyone know the precise Tehsuva #?
>
>
>
> -- 
> Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
> RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
> see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avodah@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>   

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: yadmoshe.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 103 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20080606/48f847f9/attachment-0001.vcf>

That doesn't help the guy who checked the mezuzah when he was supposed
to but because kelapai Shemaya galya that it's pasul, he gets less
shemirah. Unless one goes beyond the Ran and says that listening to the
chakhamim not only protects, but also provides metaphysical effects.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

=========================================
That's pretty much the way I've explained it but it's only based on my
own (very limited) logic - that is, that halachik reality is
determinative of existential and practical reality, and that halachik
reality is "kdaat moshe vyisrael" - i.e. halacha as we understand it
(not as bashamayim) is determinative.  Now, what happens if Rabbi X says
kosher and Y says treif & followers of each eat from the same pot - I
suppose the effect (here and bashamayim) is different even though  the
molecules are the same.

KT
Joel Rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE.  Dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is 
strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.  
Thank you.

 
 
InFrom: "Liron Kopinsky" <liron.kopinsky@gmail.com>
>>I am  inclined to say that I cannot return it, although if possible I should
let  him know that it is assur. This may or may not be possible however, as
it is  someone who is slowly becoming more shomer mitzvot and might not be
quite  prepared to take on only shaving with electric razors. I guess the
second  question is, is there a mitzvah of Hocheiach Tochiach if he will
eventually  come to not keep the mitzvah but is not going to do  so
immediately?<<




>>>>>
I don't know whether you have a mitzva of  hashavas aveida here, but you 
definitely have an obligation to tell him, as  nicely as possible, that shaving 
with a razor is assur.  In the case of  d'Oraisas I think that there is a mitzva 
of tochacha even if the person will not  listen to you, but in any case, this 
is a person who does not need to be  "reminded" but needs to be "informed" of 
something he probably does not know  because he has not been frum very long 
and it just didn't come up.  
 
My husband was shocked to find out that a person in our shul who had been  
frum already for several years was still shaving with a razor -- because no one  
had ever told him not to!  In the case of a new BT or becoming-BT it is  
always right to inform him of halachos he doesn't know (taking into account the  
need to go slowly and not overwhelm him with too much information all at once)  
and there is no need whatsoever to worry about the fact that becoming frum is 
a  process, and he will not necessarily be able to take on each new mitzva  
immediately.  




--Toby  Katz
=============





**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&;NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20080606/0ce33bbb/attachment-0001.htm>

Joel Rich:
Do you know for a fact that it was a he (I hope so) and that he used it for
his face?  If not, why wouldn't there be a mitzvah of hashavat aveida (and
of general discussion of issues around shaving, just in case)

Liron:
Assuming I know for a fact that he (and yes, my roommate was a he) used it
for his face, I think it would be pretty straight forward that you can't
return it, and should rather try and use it (if possible) as an opportunity
to teach the shaving halachot. I feel in this particular case even if I
didn't know definitively that he used it for his face that it would still be
assur to return it because what other possible uses could he have had for a
facial razor that was left by the sink? The only thing he could reasonably
use it for in the future is shaving Lo l'Halacha.

RTK:
I don't know whether you have a mitzva of hashavas aveida here, but you
definitely have an obligation to tell him, as nicely as possible, that
shaving with a razor is assur

Liron:
However there is only so much halachik information a person can take in at
one time. Slamming someone newly introducted to Halacha with the full gamut
of 613 is probably going to be overload. Is there an idea that you should
only be teaching the person halachot that they can reasonably do? For
example, someone becoming shomer shabbat, may be comfortable with stopping
driving/listening to music etc., but may not be capable yet to shower
l'halacha. Better them sin b'shogeg until they are ready to progress to the
next level. Are there halachic parameters for what and how much to tell
people re: halacha? Is it just "have a good sense of the person"? Is it just
practice?

KT,
~Liron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20080606/69fd7490/attachment-0001.htm>

RMYG wrote on Thu 5-Jun-2008 11:46pm EDT:
: R' Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz explained the Zohar that says that there are
: three types of Tefillos: Tefillah L'Ani is the Tefillah that comes from the
> depths of the heart, with tears and beseeching, like a pauper begging.  This
> prayer is most accepted before Hashem.

> Tefillah L'Moshe is with deep thought, and Hisbodedus about Hashem and
> Yichudo, until one reaches the level of knowing that Ein Od M'lvado. 
> Tefillah L'Dovid - who was the N'im Zemiros Yisroel - is to request
> closeness to Hashem, Tzamah Nafshi L'elokim... When one experiences such a
> feeling, he wants to and is capable of singing with the whole world in the
> praise of Hashem. (See Perek Shirah.)

I just blogged the following addendum [with bilingual pesuqim, but I
had to cut the Hebrew for here]:

Perhaps all three modes were captured by R' Eliezer Azikri in the opening
line of Yedid Nefesh:

Yedid Nefesh, the Beloved of the soul, was the subject of David haMelekh's
thirst. Closeness to His beloved.

Av haRachaman, the merciful Father, reaches out to His child. The pauper
appeal to his Father, begging for His loving help.

Moshe pleas meshockh avdekha el Retzonekha, draw Your servant toward
Your Will. The quest is for comprehension of that Will. Hashem calls him
"Moshe avdi -- Moses my servant" (Bamidbar 12:7), but we don't want to put
too much of a fine point on that, since He also speaks of "David avdi"
(Tehillim 89:21), and we find in Hallel David writes "I am your eved,
the son of your maidservant" (ibid 116:16). But it is Moshe's prayer
in particular that is one of comprehending Hashem's will. As in his
encounter after the Golden Calf:

    And [Moshe] said: 'Show me, please, Your glory.'

    And [Hashem] said: 'I will make all My Goodness pass before you,
    and will proclaim the name of the Hashem before you; I will be
    gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will be merciful to whom
    I will show mercy.'

                                -- Shemos 33:17-19

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 47th day, which is
micha@aishdas.org        6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
Fax: (270) 514-1507               unity-how does it draw out one's soul?

On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 08:43:07AM -0400, BKanter@aol.com wrote:
: 1) All of the relationships leading up to Dovid Hamelech are of a seemingly  
: illicit or impure nature (bnos lot, Tamar, Rus & Boaz, even Yishai and his  
: wife). I have read somewhere that this was necessary because if the "sitrah  
: achra" knew that the moshiach was coming into the world he would have tried
: to stop it. Is there  a source for this idea? 

Here's the Ari za"l's take (Shaa'r haGilgulim pereq 38):
    For a great neshamah to leave the qelipos (the tehom of tohu) you
    should know, it must be done with tricks and plots... It was similar
    with respect to Dovid haMelech, who only left the qelipos at the
    time of the maaseh mentioned by Chazal on the posuq, "Hein! Be'avon
    cholalti, uvcheit yechemasni imi" (Tehillim 51:7; see Yalqut HaMakiri,
    Tehillim 69)... This is also the reason for the maasei Tamar, Rus,
    Rachav hazonah, all the nashamos of geirim, all the malkhei beis
    David, and the mashiach who will have come from Rus haMo'aviah and
    the union of Yehudah and Tamar. Rabbi Aqiva was the son of geirim
    who were descendents from Sisera. These are the kinds of tricks
    and plotting that HQBH uses against the qelipos in order to free a
    neshamah to be used against them.

It sounds like what you're saying.

: 3) The connection between Yibum and Moshiach. i.e, all the above  mentioned 
: stories have a Yibum aspect to them (the idea of "L'hakim shem  hames") is 
: there a source for this as far as you know?

Here's the Ramban on Bereishis 38:3 (maaseh Tamar), translated by R'
Yitzchaq Etshalom:
>     The subject is indeed one of the great secrets of the Torah,
>     concerning human reproduction, and it is evident to those observers
>     who have /eyes to see and ears to hear/ [italics by RYE]. The
>     ancient wise men who were prior to the Torah knew of the great
>     benefit in marrying a childless dead brother's wife, and that it
>     was proper for the brother to take precedence in the matter,
>     and upon his failure to do so, his next of kin would come after him,
>     for any kinsman who was related to him, who would inherit his legacy,
>     would derive a benefit from such a marriage. And it was customary for
>     the dead man's wife to be wed by the brother or father or the next of
>     kin in the family. We do not know whether this was an ancient custom
>     preceding Yehudah's era. In B'resheet Rabbah (85:6) they say that
>     Yehudah was the one who inaugurated the commandment of marrying a
>     childless person's widow, for since he had received the secret from
>     his ancestors he was quick to fulfill it. Now when the Torah came
>     and prohibited marrying former wives of certain relatives, it was
>     the will of the Holy One, blessed be He, to abrogate the prohibition
>     against marrying a brother's wife in case he dies childless, but it
>     was not His will that the prohibition against marrying a father's
>     brother's wife or a son's wife or similar wives of relatives be
>     set aside. It was only in the case of a brother that the custom had
>     established itself, and the benefit is likely with him and not with
>     the others, as I have mentioned. Now it was considered a matter
>     of great cruelty when a brother did not want to marry his dead
>     brother's wife, and they would call it the house of him that had
>     his show loosed, for [after the dead brother's wife had performed
>     Chalitzah of the brother-in-law], he was now removed from them,
>     and it is fitting that this commandment be fulfilled through the
>     loosening of the shoe. Now, the ancient wise men of Yisra'el, having
>     knowledge of this important matter, established it as a custom to be
>     practiced among all those inheriting a legacy, providing there is no
>     prohibition against the marriage, and they called it Ge'ulah. This
>     was the matter concerning Bo'az, and the meaning of the words of
>     Naomi and the women neighbors. The man of insight will understand.

> (According to some supercommentaries, Ramban's cryptic allusions
> refer to the mystical notion of transmigration of souls via
> redemption/Yibum. Anything more than this mere mention is, of course,
> significantly beyond the scope of this shiur.)

That fact that the man who is supposed to do yibum is called the go'el
implies a connection. I'm not sure the substance ot it, though.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 47th day, which is
micha@aishdas.org        6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
Fax: (270) 514-1507               unity-how does it draw out one's soul?

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Cantor Wolberg <cantorwolberg@cox.net>
wrote:

> We read Megillas Rus on Shavuos because it was written to document the
> yichus of Dovid Hamelech and Dovid Hamelech was born and niftar on Shavuos.
> *Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Brurah 490:9, see also Shaarei Tshuvah 494:3*
>
> The Ollelos Ephraim says that one who dedicates a new Sefer Torah to a shul
> on Shavuos is considered as if he "brought a Korbon Mincha to Hashem in its
> right time".
> *Shaarei Tshuvah 494:3*
>


Here is a another one - a cute one

Rus = 606.
A geir accepts 606 additional mitzovs over and aobve the original 7 of b'nai
No'ach.
Rus was a giyores.  And so were ALL the Children of  Israel at Mt. Sinai
accepting 606 additional  Mitzvos.

FWIW, I have a novel interpretaion of 613 mitzvos were all given at Sinai.
Not that all 613 were given at one time  [Pesach Sheini and B'nos Zlaphchad
would be difficult to explain away]
Rather HKBH told Moshe at Sinai:

> "When I get done with you ther WIll BE 613 Mitzvos in all!"
>

THAT was the "613" given on day one at Sinai.
This also explains the Behag who includes derabbanan's in HIS 613. That is
because only the TALLY of 613 were given at Sinai but NOT literally all 613
separate commandments! OR if you will the EXPECTATION of 613 was given but
not the actual list.

But as Geirim at Sinai we were meqabeil ALL 613 on Day one even though they
might not be elucidated for a LONG TIME COMING!  This parallels a REAL LIFE
Geir who accepts 613 long before he/she has mastered sefer hamitzvos or the
Halchos Gedolos!

-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-ai
shdas.org/attachments/20080606/0f6489e3/attachment.htm>

------------------------------


Avodah mailing list
Avodah@lists.aishdas.org
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


End of Avodah Digest, Vol 25, Issue 216
***************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."