Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 181

Sun, 02 Sep 2007

• 1. Re: God Provides a Place to Flee... (Micha Berger)
• 2. Lifnei/Iver Kanaus (Doron Beckerman)
• 3. Those who act according to the stricter opinion are to be blessed (Meir Rabi)
• 4. Re: Those who act according to the stricter opinion are to be blessed (Richard Wolpoe)
• 5. Avodah] Teshuva - postive or negative? (Daniel Eidensohn)
• 6. Re: Standing for birchos hashachar (Richard Wolpoe)
• 7. Re: What was actually written on the luchosr? (Silverman, Philip B)
• 8. Tzedaka (Rich, Joel)
• 9. Re: What was actually written on the luchosr? (Richard Wolpoe)
• 10. Re: [Areivim] Beyom Chasunaso (Danny Schoemann)
• 11. Re: [Areivim] Beyom Chasunaso (Zev Sero)
• 12. Re: [Areivim] Beyom Chasunaso (Zev Sero)
• 13. Printing email to read on Shabbos (Micha Berger)

Kindly trim quotes. Topquoting isn't the email list norm, and leaving
in the whole email is an efficient use of list space; once in a
digest, people have to hunt for the new material.

-mi
On Mon, August 27, 2007 11:04 pm, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
: It is actually brought down in the Kitzur shulchan Aruch
: Kesiva vaChasima Tova
: Best Wishes for 5768,
: RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
: Please Visit:
: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
:
: On 8/26/07, R Wolberg <cantorwolberg@cox.net> wrote:
:>
:>  One of the lesser known roshei teivos of Elul appears in Shmos
:> 21:13 "*E*
:> ena  *L*'yado *V*'samti *L*'cho."  Even though a person has sinned,
:> God
:> provides for him a place to flee. Elul is that place; and teshuva,
:> which
:> has the same root and is related to "Shaiv" (sit, rest), Yeshiva,
:> and
:> Shabbos.
:>
:> When we flee to where we're going, we must take time to sit and rest
:> and
:> then learn (as in the Yeshiva) and finally our Shabbos will come
:> once we've
:> "returned."
:>
:>
:>
:> Richard Wolberg
:>
:> ------------------------------
:> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
:> It has removed 803 spam emails to date.
:> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
:> Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!
:>
:> _______________________________________________
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:>
:>
:
:
: --
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Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

R' Danny Schoemann asks what the source for the Psak of the Chazon Ish and
Rav Shach is, and adds:

"There's the sugya of "Ein Adam Oseh Din L'Atzmo" discussing
saving/retrieving personal damage. All the cases there seem to refer
to monetary personal loss. Not potential spiritual harm. Not sure how
we pasken."

I do not think this is accurate. The Sugya there (BK 28a) brings that a
master may be Chovel in his servant who refuses to leave the Shifcha
K'naanis he is married to, and the standard understanding of this Sugya (see
Minchas Chinuch (Mitzvah 8), Bircas Avraham (Erlanger) ad loc, et al) is
that this means that one may punch his fellow to be Mafrish MeIssur if there
is no other way to get him to stop, and need not go to Beis Din.

It is true that this is not a blanket Heter to do whatever you want, and if
there are less drastic ways to stop the Isur one must employ them first,
but, ultimately,  the Hetter is there.
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Rabbosay,

 

Where and what is the earliest source for, BaAl NeFesh YachMir Al AtzMo or
VeHaMachMir ToVo O'Lov BeRacha?

How many variations are there to these expressions and is there a
difference?

 

 

Gutt Yahr

 

meir

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Two quick comments:

There are a number of such expressions.  They mean that the strict letter of
the Halachah does not require more than a certain amount. E.G. : V'chol
hamarbe harey zeh meshubach is another related expresssion.

I don't know the parameters of the 2 sources mentioned based upon research.
My gut reaction is  this:
Tavo alav Bracha means that there is NO need to be machmir.  But those who
ARE machmir deseve some merit for doing it, IOW it is not a silly chumra,
not necessary but commendable.

When the Poseik is asking/demanding a ba'al nefesh to be machmir means there
IS a necessity to be machmir but it is not expected for the average person.
Analogy: it is like a gz'eiro sh'ein rov Hatzibbur Yachol La'amod bo.
Ideally the g'zeria should be obligatory -  BUT it is beyond the "madreiga"
of most to comply.

Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for 5768,
RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
Please Visit:
http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/


On 8/31/07, Meir Rabi <meirabi@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>  Rabbosay,
>
>
>
> Where and what is the earliest source for, BaAl NeFesh YachMir Al AtzMo or
> VeHaMachMir ToVo O'Lov BeRacha?
>
> How many variations are there to these expressions and is there a
> difference?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gutt Yahr
>
>
>
> meir
>
>


--
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received this email off list regarding the topic:


Rav Kook?s Orot Hatshuva is a natural source, and following 
are some passages that might be relevant (some of which address the darkness 
associated with the method of tshuva that these students are experiencing):


* Tshuva is joyful b/c it represents a link to the divine, and when it is 
invoked, one senses a refinement of the soul, with tshuva penetrating the 
physical w/ the spiritual.  Even if one has not been successful in 
redressing all one?s wrongs/sins, one should be joyful, pursuing G-d w/ awe 
and love.



* A sin (including sinful states of being, such as melancholy, rage, 
despair, fear, etc.) disrupts the unity between an individual and all 
existence.  A sinful person does not see light in the world.  He rests in 
darkness and is thus depressed and pessimistic, while a pure person sees the 
world thru a clear lens, and is joyful, resplendent in divine light.



* When one becomes conscious of one?s sinfulness, one naturally becomes 
disturbed, shaken from an illusion of righteousness, but concurrently one 
becomes aware of the divine light within, which provides one with a renewed 
sense of optimism.



* A lower form of tshuva actually damages the will.  Tshuva is not meant to 
break one, but to elevate the person.  A verification that an effective 
tshuva has taken place is clarity of mind.



* The focus of tshuva is on the future (dealing morally/properly in future) 
rather than past (an opportunity to mend and deal with past wrongs will 
eventually arise).



* If one contemplates tshuva in a melancholy state, one should intentionally 
divert one?s attention, and return only in a state of joy, when one?s 
internal state is more settled.



* Depression/self-criticism deprives one of vitality.  The observing part of 
one?s psyche must be very gentle in its criticism.



* One tends to have paradoxical feelings of tshuva, with (1) anxiety over 
one?s sinful state, (2) joy over renewed and positive state.

On 8/29/07, Dov Kay <dov_kay@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> There are many, many minhagim that never made it into MB.
>
>
> Kol tuv
> Dov Kay
>

For one of the best repositories of LITURGICAL customs see the Levush
-- 
Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for 5768,
RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
Please Visit:
http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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There are those who suggest the Ten Commandments may have been written
on the luchos like this:

2 1
4 3
6 5
8 7
10 9

Just as there are famous commentaries that connect 1-6, 2-7, 3-8 etc,
and just as I'm sure RMB's at-bash idea (1-10, 2-9, 3-8, etc) is
excellent, a thematic linkage can also be made between 1-2, 3-4, 5-6
etc.


If we are to consider this theory, and if we want to get rid of that
pesky problem which RnTK astutely pointed out of having one very
sparsely written tablet and one very wordy tablet, then I might propose
that the tablets could've had the 10 Commandments structured like this:

2 1
3 4
6 5
7 8
10 9

  Using the Yisro version, it turns out that the number of words on each
tablet would be exactly the same -- and a "nice" gematria to boot. (I'll
let the reader figure out what word I had in mind.) This idea of mine is
admittedly based on nothing but aesthetics, and would surely demand an
explanation for the serpentine pattern.


Kol tuv,

Phil Silverman




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Rambam in chapter 10 of hilchot matanot aniyim lists the ladder of
priorities and also that one shouldn't throw oneself  onto the community
(although he doesn't seem to cast it as a complete prohibition.

If one ignores the Rambam's advice concerning  throwing  oneself  onto
the community, does it have any implication for his ladder rung?
KVCT
Joel Rich
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How are the 10 commandments to be parsed [i.e. enumerated into different
commandments]according to:

   1.  Hazal?
   2. The Maoretic text - [2 different anwwers?]
   3.  Wolf Heidenheim?



-- 
Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for 5768,
RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
Please Visit:
http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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>> There are some that say the ring must be
>> absolutely smooth - apparently because engraving makes
>> it difficult to determine its value. Is anyone aware
>> of a source for this concern?

> The chassan paid several hundred (or thousand) dollars for the ring.  Can
> there possibly be any concern that it's not shaveh pruta (~5 cents)?  Or is
> the concern that she thought was being married for $3000, and really it was
> $2000, so it's a mekach ta'us?

IIRC from shiur 2 decades ago that the problem is as stated above:

With a  simple ring the Kalla reckons she's getting a ring worth
something - aka "a pruta" in legalese.

With a fancy ring she may assume it's worth a fortune and reckon she's
being given more than is true.

Sometimes I've seen the Mesader Kidushin ask the Eidim if the ring was
worth a Pruta and then inform the Kalla of its "worth".

- Danny, who didn't use a "smooth" wedding ring

> With a  simple ring the Kalla reckons she's getting a ring worth
> something - aka "a pruta" in legalese.
> 
> With a fancy ring she may assume it's worth a fortune and reckon she's
> being given more than is true.

How much of this makes sense if the kallah picked out the ring and
knows *exactly* how much it cost her chasan?


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas

> Sometimes I've seen the Mesader Kidushin ask the Eidim if the ring was
> worth a Pruta and then inform the Kalla of its "worth".

I know one rav who stopped doing this after an incident when one of the
eidim turned out to be the jeweler who had sold the chassan the ring,
and he got offended at being asked whether it was worth at least a prutah.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas

Someone posed an interesting question on scjm...

They asked whether it is permissable to print up one's email on Friday
in order to read it on Shabbos. The majority of the post showed real
ignorance of hilkhos Shabbos or even the concept of melakhah, but
something he said along the way intrigued me. Converting it to more
informed language, the question becomes:

Is one permitted to read discussion group email on Shabbos? Or, is it a
problem of hakhanah, since one will plan replies to be typed after
Shabbos?

And would it make a difference if the group is Avodah or Areivim?

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             The fittingness of your matzos [for the seder]
micha@aishdas.org        isn't complete with being careful in the laws
http://www.aishdas.org   of Passover. One must also be very careful in
Fax: (270) 514-1507      the laws of business.    - Rabbi Israel Salanter


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End of Avodah Digest, Vol 23, Issue 181
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