Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 160

Fri, 27 Jul 2007

• 1. Tzitzis on Tisha B'Av (Chaim G Steinmetz)
• 2. End of sefer notes (Michael Kopinsky)
• 3. Re: End of sefer notes (Micha Berger)
• 4. Tzitzis on Tisha B'Av (Cantor Wolberg)
• 5. Re: End of sefer notes (Michael Kopinsky)
• 6. Re: Rambam and RIF (Michael Kopinsky)
• 7. binfol oyvekha al tismach (SBA)
• 8. Re: binfol oyvekha al tismach (Micha Berger)
• 9. Charedim and the army (Dr. Josh Backon)
• 10. shemitta (Eli Turkel)
• 11. Sinas Hinam (Celejar)
• 12. Re: shemitta (Saul Guberman)
• 13. Re: [Areivim] [w]hats the norm? (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 14. Cheeseburgers and Basar Be'halav (Yitzhak Grossman)

 "kennethgmiller@juno.com" <kennethgmiller@juno.com> writes

The ArtScroll siddur for Tisha B'Av includes instructions *not* to 
kiss one's tzitzis during Baruch She'amar and Krias Shema of 
Shacharis, even though we do wear the Tallis Katan that day, and we 
do kiss the tzitzis at these points the rest of the year. ArtScroll 
offers no explanation for this change, and I have long wondered what 
the reason is.

.....

(Note: I have a sefer which points to Shut Riv'vos Ephraim 1:383 as 
the source for not kissing the tzitzis during Shema. I don't have 
access to that, but if someone else does, it might offer a reason.)

Akiva Miller



------------------------------
The RE is obviously not the "source" of this minhog, just discusses the
"reasons", as I believe the minhog predates him.
That tshuva is a bit confusing, but the basic point is that since it
seems that on TB the tzitziz are worn "under" the clothes unlike all year
round (see SA OH 8:11, 555:1), therefore the tzitzis are hidden and not
taken out. However he brings those that feel that is only concerning the
BEGED and not the actual tzitzis, therefore they should be held.
CGS

In Mikraos Gedolos Hamaor, at the end of each sefer it has a note that
says (using B'midbar as an example), "S'chum pesukim shel sefer b'midbar
1288, ... , uparshiosav 10 ..., v'sidrav 32..., uperakav 36..., minyan
hapesuchos 92, v'hasesumos 66, sach hakol 158 parshios..."

I found it interesting that it lists both sidros (referring presumably to
EY's triennial cycle, since in all the seforim it is approx. 3x the # of
parshios) and perakim.  Isn't this a bit of an anachronism?  Were triennial
sidros and perakim ever used in the same period?

KT,
Michael
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On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 05:58:42PM -0600, Michael Kopinsky wrote:
: In Mikraos Gedolos Hamaor, at the end of each sefer it has a note that
: says (using B'midbar as an example), "S'chum pesukim shel sefer b'midbar
: 1288, ... , uparshiosav 10 ..., v'sidrav 32..., uperakav 36..., minyan
: hapesuchos 92, v'hasesumos 66, sach hakol 158 parshios..."

: I found it interesting that it lists both sidros (referring presumably to
: EY's triennial cycle...

Not at all! It's the number of "paragraphs". 92 pesuchos -- marked by
ending the line early, 66 setumos -- marked by a 9 dalet-width space
and then closing the line. 92+66 = (sach hakol) 158.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha@aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rabbi Israel Salanter

My opinion as to why we don't kiss tzitzis on Tisa B'Av would be similar to why an aveil doesn't say "tiskabel." Also, as we don't greet one another, neither do we show affection.  Kissing the tzitzis is a way of showing affection.  Since we are collective aveilim,we are in no frame of mind to be kissing - even tzitzis.
ri
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On 7/26/07, Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 05:58:42PM -0600, Michael Kopinsky wrote:
> : In Mikraos Gedolos Hamaor, at the end of each sefer it has a note that
> : says (using B'midbar as an example), "S'chum pesukim shel sefer b'midbar
> : 1288, ... , uparshiosav 10 ..., v'sidrav 32..., uperakav 36..., minyan
> : hapesuchos 92, v'hasesumos 66, sach hakol 158 parshios..."
>
> : I found it interesting that it lists both sidros (referring presumably
> to
> : EY's triennial cycle...
>
> Not at all! It's the number of "paragraphs". 92 pesuchos -- marked by
> ending the line early, 66 setumos -- marked by a 9 dalet-width space
> and then closing the line. 92+66 = (sach hakol) 158.


No, I was talking about the sidros, of which there are 32.  (See the
previous line.)

KT,
Michael
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On 7/23/07, Allen Gerstl <acgerstl@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of whether there is an expeditious way of pinpointing
> those
> halachot where the Rambam disagrees with the RIF so that one may implement
> the Rambam's suggestion to Joseph ben Judah.  I realize the if someone
> used
> the Rambam and compared each halacha to that of the RIF such could be
> found
> but my question is as to whether there is such a list in any source or
> whether there is a source that can be used to easily and expeditiously to
> create a list of such disagreements between the Rambam and the RIF so as
> to
> implement that particular suggestion of the Rambam to "study the relevant
> passage[s]".


Basically, you're looking for a shortcut to learn in depth? If you're
learning in depth, don't use shortcuts; if you're using shortcuts, don't
expect to acheive depth.

KT,
Michael
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From: "Micha Berger" <>
We discussed the conflict between between binfol oyvekha al tismach
and vesheim resha'im yirqav in a discussion that crossed over from
scjm to Avodah...
In any case, iz nisht azoi pashut, but 'twould seem there is a long
mesorah for feeling the pain of the need to destroy even non-Jewish
enemies. Sadness mixed in with the joy of a yeshu'ah.
>>

I, of course, cannot remember that discussion. (I can't remember what
we talked about yesterday.)

But it is quite obviously that 'binfol oyvecho' refers to your personal
enemies, whilst 'veshem reshaim yirkav' and similar psukim refer to
kofrim and apikorsim - sonei Hashem.

(And no doubt that Beruriya's 'chatoim velo chotim' also refered to
baalei aveirah - leteyavon etc - not minim, as is mashma from that gemara.)

SBA

On Fri, July 27, 2007 2:25 am, SBA wrote:
: But it is quite obviously that 'binfol oyvecho' refers to your
: personal enemies, whilst 'veshem reshaim yirkav' and similar psukim
: refer to kofrim and apikorsim - sonei Hashem.

See http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2007/07/compassion-for-our-enemies.shtml
where I summarize the conclusions I reached from that discussion and
the mar'eh meqomos posted in support of that conclusion.

It would seem that from the medrash, through Shibolei haLeqet, the
Beis Yoseif, the Taz, the Kaf haChaim and in modern times to R' Aharon
Kotler, RSZA and a yeish omeir of R' Elyashiv, the message is to
rejoice in one's yeshu'ah even while feeling pain over the human cost
necessary to bring it about. Simply -- feel both, even though they
conflict.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

[Bounced from AREIVIM at the request of the moderators]

R. Ben Waxman had asked:

>I can't say that I really understand this discussion.  People with
>families shouldn't be drafted, the army should change in this way or
>that way, who wants soldiers with low motivation anyway, and on an
>on. These questions are all secondary or tertiary. The first question
>to be asked is it mandatory for Jewish males to serve the Israeli
>Defense Forces at this time. The answer is yes or no. If there answer
>is yes, then people have to deal with that. If it is not mandatory,
>then b'seder all of these other points can be taken into consideration.
>
>I never delved into this point, but years ago one of my ram'im told
>me that there is no written tshevua on the subject of talmud torah



Military service in Tzahal (IDF) would seem to be a mitzva as per
the gemara in Sotah 44b. The definition of "milchemet mitzva"
is to fight defensive wars against an attacker and to ensure that
Israel remains under Jewish rule (see: Radbaz Hilchot Melachim 7:4).
See also the Minchat Chinuch (Mitzva 425) who goes into detail on the
laws of war. War is required in what's termed a "Milchemet Mitzva" and
is permitted in what's termed a "Milchemet Reshut".

Even a talmid chacham is obligated to serve (see: Chidushei Chatam Sofer on
the gemara in Bava Batra 7b [appears on 8a d"h menadeh]. He indicates
that a talmid chacham is *not* exempt from an act that prevents
danger e.g. guard duty and I quote: "aval shmira k'derech shemalchut
nishmarim ... gam talmid chacham chayav k'd'mocheach Mi'haMordechai
Bava Batra Perek Aleph Siman 475]; SHU'T haRadbaz Chelek Bet Siman 752).

Look at Shmuel haNagid (Abu Ibrahim Shmuel ben Yosef halevi Ibn Nagrela,
993-1056 C.E.), one of the leaders of Spanish Jewry. He was not only a great
talmudic scholar (he wrote the Sefer Hilcheta Gavrata which was a major
influence on the RIF (Rav Yitzchak Alfassi) and the Introduction to the
Talmud) but the prime minister (Vizier) of Granada and commander in chief
of the army of Granada where as military leader he won a major battle
in 1038 against the army of Almeria and a major victory in 1039 over the
army of Seville.

He wasn't exactly kvetching in a yeshiva all day :-)

KT

Josh

Mainly for the Israelis in the crowd. Just went to a shiur from the head of
kashrut in Raanana - a major talmid chacham (learned in
Ponovezh and is close to RSYE) and knowledgable in the facts

1. Many vegetables such as cucumbers come almost exclusively from the Arabs
and as such places that claim to only buy Jewish produce (all year round)
are
misleading.

2. Gaza is completely closed and so no produce will come from there in the
near future. Raanana will not accept most produce from the Arab west bank
simply because adequate hasgacha is impossible.

3. Raanana will have otzer bet din from Otzar Haaretz and also from the
rabbanut of several nearby towns including Petach Tikvah

4. All restaurants will have Arab/imported produce only to avoid problems
with
kedushat sheviit which is not practical for a place serving the general
public.

5. It is not clear what will happen with heter mechira this year. The chief
rabbi of
Raanana claims they are actively working on it. The local masgiach felt that
decisions are not made by the chief rabbis of Israel but rather by RSYE and
ROY
who have very different attitudes towards heter mechira. Therefore he doubts
whether
anything official about heter mechira will happen

================================================

A question I asked for which he had no answer (so far)

what to do with fruit growing in ones backyard. One does not want strangers
wandering about the yard. He first suggested making the fruit (only NOT the
yard)
hefker and leaving it on the street. I objected that most people passing by
will not treat it with kedushat sheviit (ouside of Bnei Brak and similar
places).
I suggested bringing it to shul. He agree to my objection but didn't think
one could bring hefker to ones friends in shul with left us with no viable
solution.

kol tuv

-- 
Eli Turkel
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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:26:03 -0700 Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
wrote [on Areivim]:

> I think the one greatest cheit that has prevented the ge'ulah so far
> is our fascination of what yenem is doing to prevent the ge'ulah.
> That's the sin'as chinam of the gemara: when we each care more about
> how bad the other is, than we do about cleaning our own houses.
> 
> The Tzeduqim in the days of bayis sheini were bad. We know they sent
> malshinim to the Romans, they sent people to lie to Sanhedrin about
> qiddush hachodesh, they were anti-Yahadus and cost us lives. So how is
> hating or one of the other movements "chinam"? It is because if our
> hatred were fueled by ahavas Hashem, we would be investing more effort
> in vilifying our own chata'im than in vilifying theirs, and them for
> embracing those chata'im as positive values.

You are implying that the hatred of the Perushim for the Zedukim is
(included) in what Hazal meant by Sinas Hinam.  I've often wondered
about this; do you have a source?  Even the Netziv, in his famous
introduction to Sefer Bereishis ("Sefer Hayashar") in Ha'amek Davar
only goes as far as alleging that Sinas Hinam means the *unjust*
vilification of the hater's ideological opponents as Zedukim and
heretics:

Al kein mipnei sinas hinam she'bilibam zeh es zeh hashdu es mi sherau
shenoheg shelo keda'atam be'yiras hashem shehu zeduki ve'apikorus

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Ledin - bdl.freehostia.com
An advanced discussion of Hoshen Mishpat

On 7/27/07, Eli Turkel <eliturkel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A question I asked for which he had no answer (so far)
>
> what to do with fruit growing in ones backyard. One does not want
> strangers
> wandering about the yard. He first suggested making the fruit (only NOT
> the yard)
> hefker and leaving it on the street. I objected that most people passing
> by
> will not treat it with kedushat sheviit (ouside of Bnei Brak and similar
> places).
> I suggested bringing it to shul. He agree to my objection but didn't think
>
> one could bring hefker to ones friends in shul with left us with no viable
> solution.
>

Can it be given to a "soup kitchen" type of organization?
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R' Ira Rosen wrote on Areivim (in the context of a discussion of the
relative merits of Davening with a hat vs. Davening without a minyan):
> As yet, I've never found a
> halacha (not minhag, halacha) regarding men covering their heads
> beyond a kippah (and that, as far as I understood, was a minhag that
> has become like halacha).

It actually is a Machlokes Rishonim - the BY (OC 8:2.2 - MY edition) says
that it's Derech Tznuin based on various Gemaros, and the Darkei Moshe there
argues and says that one is not obligated to if one is not wearing Tzitzis.
(IOW, BY says that one should have two headcoverings, and DM says that one
doesn't _have_ to wear even one.) (However, see Darkei Moshe 2:2 who talks
about how important it is to cover one's head - presumably talking about a
single covering.)

KT,
MYG  

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:35:26 -0700 Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>   Actually there is probably no difference between a cheeseburger at Macdonalds and a hamburger. Both are treif from the start so Basar B'Chalav wouldn't attach because Ein Isssur Chal Al Issur.
>    
>   HM

True, but there may be an issur hana'ah.  The celebrated "nekudah
nifla'ah" of the Rambam [0] and the Noda Be'yehudah [1] is that there's
no issur hana'ah, but not everyone agrees [2].

[0] Pirush Hamishnayos Kerisos 3:3
[1] Dagul Me'rivavah Yoreh De'ah 87:3
[2] see Pis'hei Teshuvah loc. cit. 6

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Ledin - bdl.freehostia.com
An advanced discussion of Hoshen Mishpat



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