Avodah Mailing List

Volume 14 : Number 110

Wednesday, April 6 2005

• Re: fallibility of Chazal
• Rabbinic eras
• Sanhedrin being wrong
• RE: Bracha for t'vila (was:Re: Orthodox tackle premarital sex dilemma)
• The Extraordinary Number of Stars
• "Seeing" G-d
• Re: 30 second delay
• Re: Eruvin
• Re: Eruvin
• Re: kavod hatorah
• Re: kavod hatorah
• RE: Bracha for t'vila (was:Re: Orthodox tackle premarital sex dilemma)
• RE: zohar
• Re: Grammar in Quotes and in Tephillah
• Re:Grammar in Quotes and in Tephillah
• RE: The Extraordinary Number of Stars
• Re: Relationship of Science to Torah
• wine/matza
• RSZA on Heter Mechira
• Erev Pesach on Shabbat (5765): A Short Guide

On Apr 4, 2005 7:33 PM, Glasner, David <DGLASNER@ftc.gov> wrote:
> ... aside from the obvious (to me at any rate) fact

> that the Rambam explicitly rejects that idea in his psak in Mamrim 2:1,
> the idea was even more emphatically rejected by the beit din of R.
> Yehoshua, R. Gamliel and R. Akiva, who rejected a bat kol (a bat kot!)
> that confirmed that the yeshiva shel ma'alah paskeend in accord with
> R. Eliezer against their own position. Can you possibly believe that the
> yerida between the yeshivah shel ma'alah and the beit of R. Yehoshua et
> al. was a lesser yerida than that between the Tanaim and the Amoraim?

This seems to me a non sequitur. As I understand the sugya, all the
proofs brought by R. Eliezer, up to and including the bat kol, are
rejected as not being part of the halachic process (ein meviin raya
min heharuv, ein meviin raya me'amat hamayim, etc.), which is an
orthogonal issue to the relative authority of batei din of different
periods. If R. Eliezer had said "Shama'ti mipi R. Yohanan Ben Zakkai
rabi sheshama mirabo...", it would have been a different ball game.

R Jonathan Baker wrote:
> Even the Aruch HaShulchan, which looks sorta like a code,
> is more of a series of essays on the development of halacha and its
> implementation, not an actual code.

It's usable as a code, at least as usable as the Rif, which is clearly
treated as one.

In any case, the same generation produced the MB, which mitigates your
ability to use the AhS as proof of a reluctance to have codes.

> Absent the full development of halacha, which was somewhat constricted
> due to the dislocations and mass deaths of the 20th century, I don't
> see much choice other than becoming "karaites of the Shulchan Aruch".
> It's not an ideal situation, but it may not have been avoidable. Let us
> hope and work for its not becoming a permanent situation.

Bebinyan haSanhedrin, bb"a. I don't see any other way to roll back
hundreds of years of precedent built on SA and nosei keilim.

And, ironically, reliance on codes can /reduce/ the amount of ossification
of pesaq. After all, if all one considers halakhah pesuqah is that which
makes it to a code, then far fewer pesaqim qualify. In an extreme case,
look how many pesaqim a Maimonidian would have to consider binding. AIUI,
to a Darad'i, nothing since the Rambam is immutable precedent.

RSCoffer wrote:
> I admit that this approach does not seem to "lamdush" but the idea that
> there were eras in our history where the yeridas hadoros engendered a
> qualitative yerida in the profundity of klal yisroels grasp of the Torah
> is not a foreign idea. Thus, Rav Chaim Volozhiner explains the Mishna
> in Avos as follows: Moshe "keebail" Torah meysinai, Moshe accepted,
> meaning in its entirety, with a full grasp of the Torah, but it doesn't
> say and Yehoshua was "mikabel" from Moshe because Moshe's grasp of the
> Torah was qualitatively greater than Yehoshua's. It therefore states
> "misara leeHoshua". The word mesira implies giving although the receiver
> does not receive it in its entirety. The Mishna then continues 'Yehoshua
> to Zekeinim, Zekeinin to Neveim and the Neveim "misaruha" to the Anshei
> Kneses Hagidola.

In MetaHalkhah, a sefer by lurker R' Moshe
Koppel that I've recommended here in the past
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1568219016/aishdas>, RMK notes
that each point where there's a "masruha" we also find chazal discussing a
"chazar veyasdum". Be it the dinim lost at Moshe Rabbeinu's petirah that
were reconstructed (Temurah 15b) or the many times WRT the rebuilding
by Anshei Kenesses haGdolah.

He speaks of this in terms of loss of "native" knowledge of halakhah
to a need to rely on formal rules. The formalization runs against the
basic nature of TSBP, but a necessary repair for the loss of Torah
culture. Leyaseid halakhah is to establish it as a formal rule, rather
than a "native speaker's" gefeel for what's right.

It's interesting, though, that the cultural rift is insufficient grounds
for proclaiming a new era. There seems to also be a commonly accepted
book -- the mishnah, bavli and SA with nosei keilim respectively. The
shift from the geonim in Bavel to Sepharad and Ashkenaz does not mark
a new era. (Except perhaps in the eyes of the Dardaim -- but then to
them, the Yad is that book.) Rishonim debate geonim in ways they would
never dispute amoraim. Nor between the zugos and the tanaim. (Now the
authority of the savora'im, be it the kind of authority of amora'im or
of ge'onim and rishonim, seems to be a machloqes rishonim, and whether
they quote the savoraic insertions in the gemara.)

This idea of rupture + seifer leads to an incremental decline in
authority was the subject of an scj post of mine that made it into the FAQ
<http://shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/04-03.html> with a non-frum
rephrase of the opening and a final line I wouldn't write as well as
other additions about the history (dates and details) that I don't have
problems with. I realize it's not the only source, but it's clean and
simple and certainly /a/ shitah. If someone wants to help make a more
complete answer, kindly chime in. Daniel Faigin would be happy to hone
the answer further.

>> Can't you hear the clanging dissonance?

> It rings in my ears each time I step through my front door at home!

Ben porat yosef!

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
micha@aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l

In a recent exchange on Areivim the question of Sanhedrin being "wrong"
was raised.  Micha quoted:
> See Horayos 4a-b -- we are culpable for following even a Sanhedrin in a case
> where they permit something blatantly wrong (e.g. eliminate an entire
> de'oraisa, or something even the Tzaduqim follow, etc...)

I've always wondered about that gemora which says the taut was in
something that even a child wouldn't get wrong. Now why didn't the gemora
in Horiyot say that (ala R' Orlofsky) - don't you think the Sanhedrin
can read the Torah, so if they held something you are sure is blatantly
wrong, you must be wrong? Under what circumstances could we imagine a
properly constituted sanhedrin getting something like this wrong? Is it
possible that the gemora was concerned about a runaway,renegade sanhedrin?

KT
Joel Rich

From: Micha Berger
> Which then lead me to: How valid is it to argue that a man in such a
> relationship is oveir shivas zera levatala? Here's my sevara: In order for
> it not to be levatala, one needs to be fulfilling either piryah verivyah
> or "vedavaq be'ishto". In nidon didan, the couple are presumably avoiding
> pregnancy, and she is not "ishto".
> This seems like a big chiddush...

"vedavaq be'ishto" might not mean davka "ishto". After all, a pilegesh is
permitted. 

Yisroel

The Gemara in Berachos 32b (a recent Daf Yomi ) states that there
exist what amount to billions, perhaps trillions or quadrillions, of
stars. I think this Gemara is best understood in the context of the
last mishnah (technically, the baraisa tack-on to the last mishnah)
that asserts that in the eventual future every tzaddik will be granted
310 olamos. I always used to understand that mishnah metaphorically,
but it occurred to me recently that it may well be meant k'peshuto: The
greatest amount of dveykus in Hashem - the ultimate reward of Olam HaBa -
is accomplished by halichah b'derachav. It therefore stands to reason
that each and every tzaddik should be holeich b'darchei Hashem in the
ultimate sense - as a Creator. Hence, each and every Tzaddik is given
310 olamos to form and shape and develop. Thus the need for myriad stars,
so as to have the myriad planets l'hanchil l'ohavei Hashem.

YGB

Cantor Wolberg wrote:
> Or Ha Chaim comments that
> even a person who is still spiritually alive, i.e., one whose soul has
> not been contaminated by the temptations of the body (anyone we know?),
> cannot survive the sight of G-d's Presence.

Well, wouldn't we have to speak in past tense, who /did/ we know who
qualified?

In any case, what about every nolad? Is the OhC asserting that people
aren't born pure? This issue is not easily resolvable. OT1H, the gemara
learns that the yeitzer hara is innate, but the yeitzer hatov acquired
at bar mitzvah. OTOH, we are advised that chumash start with Devarim
on the grounds of their qedushah, we have all the statements about the
zechus of tinoqos shel beis rabban, etc...

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
micha@aishdas.org        are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507      

R Eli Turkel wrote:
> In a related issue R. Avraham Yosef in his program on Purim stated that
> one answers amen to a beracha on radio or TV and he explictly added this
> is even if there is a significant delay between the beracha and hearing
> it because of the distance. He gave the example of the synagogue in
> Alexandrea where they relied on flags to say amen and we assume there
> was a time lag because of the flags.

Given that it's possible that in Alexandria there was only one flag, or a
chain of fewer flags that didn't take tokh kedei dibur to relay, how can this
be used as a raayah? The gemara Sukkah 51b speaks only of the chazan having a
sudar at the bimah, not a relay system. Or did you mean "example" quite
literally?

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
micha@aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l

> While Rav Moshe did state (Igros Moshe, O.C. 4:86, and Addendum to
> O.C. 4:89) that one of his justifications for allowing an eruv in Kew
> Gardens Hills Queens was because they did not include a highway in
> the boundaries of the eruv, this does not clarify why he did not have
> a similar problem with the population of Queens as he had regarding

WADR, KGH is one of many small mixed residential and storefront
neighborhoods in Queens. It has nowhere near the population density of
either BP or Flatbush , Neither Jewel Avenue nor Main Street, on their
busiest days, have anywhere the pedestrian or auto traffic of Queens
Boulevard, Northern Boulevard or Ocean Parkway or any of the busy streets
in BP. No main highway such as the Van Wyck, LIE or Grand Central go
thru the neighborhood. You have to exit these highways and proceed for
a distance before you even get to KGH. In addition, the shealah re the
eruv was posed by R P Steinberg, a long time talmid of RMF. These facts
are all assumed by RMF in his discussion which approved of an eruv in KGH.

Steve Brizel
Zeliglaw@aol.com

R' Shmuel Pultman wrote <<< However, the reason to allow an eruv in
Brooklyn is superior to the one in Queens, since we know nowadays that
Brooklyn is circumscribed on at least three sides with mechitzos and
consequently is classified as a reshus hayachid. >>>

I've heard several people make this comment recently. Can someone tell
me where these mechitzos are located? Were they built recently, or have
they been around for a long time, and it is only recently that people
realized that we can use them for this purpose?

When I first heard about these mechitzos, I thought that perhaps Brooklyn
has no shore, and that the entire coastline consists of vertical cliffs
of at least 10 tefachim. But that can't be right; the Coney Island beach
alone would be more than enough to passul it, and there are plenty of
other shores as well. Could we be talking about concrete road barriers
on the sides of the Belt Parkway and BQE? (That's the Brooklyn-Queens
Expressway, for you non-NewYorkers.)

Akiva Miller

"SBA" <sba@sba2.com>
> One does not say mutav sheyehe shogegin on a de'oyrayseh.

Er, "mutav sheyihyu shogegin" is said specifically about an issur
de'orayta.  One only does not say it about something that is explicit
in Torah Shebichtav, with no TShBP required.  (Apologies to RTK for
the horribleness of that sentence.)

-- 
Zev Sero
zev@sero.name

 From: "Yosef Gavriel & Shoshanah M.  Bechhofer" <ygb@aishdas.org>
> At 02:08 PM 4/4/2005, kennethgmiller@juno.com wrote:
>>The "consumer"? I'm a consumer. Are you saying that I should stay a shogeg
>>until I know as much Hilchos Eruvin as you do?

> You are not the consumer. Your rabbi is, I have done my hishtadlus
> several times over - far and above the call - by writing a sefer to call
> the issues to their attention.
> If your don't trust your rav, that is something else...
> The rest of you post is therefore irrelevant.

The exchange between AM and YGB highlights an important point about
dissent in halachic discourse. Yahadus has honored free speech and
dissent in halachic discourse from the beginning. Every halachic text
that we have is proof that dissent is welcome within halachic discussion
and that the horaah process is enhanced by differences of opinion.
Not only does machlokes abound in chazal and everywhere else in halacha,
but the concept of machlokes is built into our very halachic system.
For example, in dinei nefashos, a sanhedrin cannot pronounce a capital
punishment if the verdict is unanimous. Dissent is a prerequisite for
a proper functioning halacha. The reason why posekim write and publish
teshuvos (as opposed to issuing pronouncements), and (to reference another
avodah post) the reason why there is a resistance to settled codification
of halachah, is that debate is to be encouraged and ensures better psak
on a sheyla-by-sheyla basis. Gadflies like YGB keep the process true and
ensure that posekim are thorough and have answers for competing arguments
and positions before they paskin. Ask yourself whether the Yad Chazaka
better because of the Ra'avad and doesn't the Rama improve the shulchan
aruch? Of course, there are limits to dissent and rules of engagement
(e.g., psak lifnei rabo). The story about R. Gamliel and R. Yehoshua in
M. Rosh Hashona is instructive. R. Yehoshua was free to disagree and to
complain about the R. Gamliel's determination of Rosh Chodesh but, in the
end, he carried on the day he thought was yom kippur to avoid undermining
the authority of the Sanhedrin. (Another example with nice homiletical
implications about machlokes is the description in last week's parsha
of the confusion over the burning of the se'ir and "darosh darash.")

In short, no doubt YGB's position is well-informed by the sources and he
surely has good intentions in decrying what he perceives as widespread
failures to construct proper eruvin. However, AM is right to take offense
at YGB's overbroad pronouncement implying that hundreds of thousands of
purportedly shomer shabbos jews are carrying on shabbos. The rabonim in
each community has a monopoly over the local eruv psak and no amount of
shrill rhetoric will undermine their authority overnight. But disagreeing
with the psak is still helpful in the long term. Hopefully, no modern
day R. Gamliel will make YGB carry within one of the complained of eruvin
on shabbos, but even if someone did, his halachic analysis is a welcome
contribution and improves halachic psak and compliance going forward.

*nd

R'MB:
> Which then lead me to: How valid is it to argue that a man in such a
> relationship is oveir shivas zera levatala? Here's my sevara: In order for
> it not to be levatala, one needs to be fulfilling either piryah verivyah
> or "vedavaq be'ishto". In nidon didan, the couple are presumably avoiding
> pregnancy, and she is not "ishto".

It seems to me that the geder for levatala is if it isn't derech biah -
not "not fulfilling either piryah verivyah or "vedavaq be'ishto"." Thus,
any biah k'darka is not a problem of l'vatala. Same with biah with a
m'uberes or meinekes (who isn't ovulating) or k'tanah or a z'keinah. Same
with shelo k'darka because of the pasuk mishk'vei isha. Otherwise your
question would apply not only to this situation, but to bo'el aramis,
too. Also by a k'tanah she'hisiah imah v'ache'ha, every biah would be
a safek zerah l'vatala.

KT,
MYG

R' JR:
> I don't know of any off hand-I remember being told that the GRA said
> that all but X (4?) seeming contradictions between the zohar and nigleh
> could be resolved. I'm sure someone must have studied this issue

IIRC, R' Chaim Volozhiner brings down that the GRA said that all but one
of the contradictions between the Zohar and Chazal could be resolved. The
one that couldn't is the Zohar's chumra by sitting within four amos of
a mispallel.

IIRC, the Aruch haShulchan on that inyan cites the Zohar, and answers
the contradiction (without mentioning the GRA), by saying that the Zohar
was misinterpreted.

KT,
MYG

In Avodah V14 #109, Micha noted:
> As for quotes, we reconjugate pesuqim from Tehillim written in the
> singular to the plural quite often. "Amareinu ha'azinah H..." "Yihyu
> leratzon imrei fi..." is the quote as used after Shemonah Esrei, however,
> it becomes "finu" in Selichos.

Another example among many, and one encountered more often by Ashknazim:
in the Mon/Thu tachanun, the second sentence (based on T'hilim 40:12)
is conjugated "...mimmennu...yitz'runu"; it's quoted as written in
Psuqai dZimra.

All the best from
 - Michael Poppers via RIM pager

[Micha:]
> According to the GRA, upon waking up you should say "Modah ani lefanekha"
> and in birkhos haShachar "shelo asani nochriyah".

> (He has men say "... nachri", since it makes little sense for members of
> the "goy qadosh" shouldn't say "shelo asani goy". First, because "goy"
> as "member of a nation" is not the original meaning; second, because
> the Jewish People /are/ lefi divrei HQBH a goy.)

What is your source that the GRA said Nachri/Nachria? I know that the
Rav said Nachri, but this is not what is in Siddur Ezor Eliyahu, which
is generally considered the most reliable Siddur ha'GRA.

Sincerely,
David Roth

[RYGB:]
> The Gemara in Berachos 32b (a recent Daf Yomi ) states that 
> there exist what amount to billions, perhaps trillions or 
> quadrillions, of stars. I think this Gemara is best 
> understood in the context of the last mishnah (technically, 
> the baraisa tack-on to the last mishnah) that asserts that in 
> the eventual future every tzaddik will be granted 310 olamos. 
> I always used to understand that mishnah metaphorically, but 
> it occurred to me recently that it may well be meant 
> k'peshuto: The greatest amount of dveykus in Hashem - the 
> ultimate reward of Olam HaBa - is accomplished by halichah 
> b'derachav. It therefore stands to reason that each and every 
> tzaddik should be holeich b'darchei Hashem in the ultimate 
> sense - as a Creator. Hence, each and every Tzaddik is given 
> 310 olamos to form and shape and develop. Thus the need for 
> myriad stars, so as to have the myriad planets l'hanchil 
> l'ohavei Hashem.

Nice. I like the kepeshuto -- real stars -- in addition to the deeper
meanings.

Although the current estimate of the number of stars is more than the
zillions reported in the Gemora, it is interesting that the number of
stars that can be seen by the naked eye amounts to less than five or
ten thousand.

I have read that it was only with the invention of the telescope that
scientists first got an inkling of the vast number of stars in the
universe as described in the Gemora.

KT ... JSO

In  Avodah V14 #93 dated 3/13/2005  R' Simcha Coffer  writes:
> My friend, you are seriously misinformed. I have had contact with the
> widest range of Judaism possible. First of all, almost all Chasidim
> (I am not even aware of any exceptions) believe in a literal 6 day
> creation. This already makes us a rov, and you a miyut. In addition,
> every mainstream Orthodox Jew that I have come in contact with believes
> the same.

If so, your range of acquaintances is narrow  indeed.

 -Toby  Katz
=============

On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 04:41:09PM -0700, Daniel Israel wrote to Areivim:
: The halacha is quite clear that one is supposed to use the best 
: available wine.  So I would argue that one may well be obligated to use 
: these newer quality wines.  In fact, I would be interested in some 
: discussion if anyone can bring sources as to whether someone who 
: actually likes "sacremental syrup" (as one person I know calls it) might 
: still be obligated to obtain a wine that is recognized by vinophiles as 
: a high quality wine.

: RSNs comment about the time interval does raise (once again) the 
: question of whether the shiurim we use today are perhaps out of whack- 
: achila gassa was not the point of the mitzvah.  It would seem to me that 
: common sense dictates that the most preferrable way to eat at the seder 
: has to still be recognizable as a way a dignified person would eat.

The shiurim have to be consistant. If one is eating a generous kezayis,
then he should be similarly using a generous kedei achilas peras. In fact,
I'd think if one thinks of it as a speed, there should really be very
little variation of eating rate in kezeisim/ka"p. One could therefore
be machmir both (consistant ways): eat a CI kezayis in a CI ka"p while
making sure to eat the first Rav Naeh kezayis of it in a R' Naeh ka"p.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha@aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Areivim, R' Gil Student recently wrote <<< R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach,
Minchas Shlomo 1:44, permits someone who does not rely on Heter Mechirah
to buy and eat fruits and vegetables from a vendor who relies on Heter
Mechirah. >>>

I've always heard this psak in terms of accepting invitations, so as not
to embarrass the host. But if one can actually buy from such a vendor,
then (as far as I can tell) it becomes impossible to distinguish between
someone who does rely on the heter from one who does not rely on it.

Anyone know what RSZA's logic was for allowing even the purchase of
such vegetables from such a vendor? Did he allow it even l'chatchila,
or only b'shaas hadchak?

Akiva Miller

What to Do when Erev Pesach Falls on Shabbat (5765): A Short Guide
by Rabbi Aryeh A. Frimer

(Note: For clarity, references have been kept to an absolute minimum.
Abbreviations - OH: Shulkhan Arukh Orah Hayyim; MB: Mishnah Berurah;
IM: Resp. Igrot Moshe. Times are Daylight Savings for Rehovot Israel,
and following the general custom in Israel, are le-humra: Magen Avraham
before noon and Gra after noon.)

I. General: Ta'anit bechorot is pushed up to Thursday morning. Bedikat
hametz is performed Thursday evening. All hametz, not needed for
Friday or Shabbat meals, should be sold, removed or burned before
Friday morning 11:15 AM (end of 5 sha’ot zemaniyot; same she’at bi’ur
time as in a regular year). By Friday afternoon, the house should be
entirely Pesachdig and only kasher le-Pesach foods and utensils should
be used - with perhaps the only exception, bread for lehem mishneh.
All preparations for the Seder (removing challah from the matzot,
preparing the maror, haroset, salt water, roasting the shankbone and egg)
should have been completed. No preparations for the Seder or Yom Tov
may be done on Shabbat.

II. Basic Principles:
A) Matzah
1) It is Rabbinically forbidden to eat matzah on erev pesach (OH 471:2).
The majority of Poskim maintain that this prohibition starts only from the
morning [alot ha-shahar] (ibid., MB no. 13). The minority view maintains
that one should be stringent from the night before. (IM, OH, I, 154).
Some have the custom of not eating matzah from Purim or Rosh Hodesh.

2) According to most authorities, this prohibition includes items
baked with matzah mehl (e.g., cakes and cookies), but not those cooked
(e.g., Kneidelach - kufta'ot) [OH 444, MB no. 8] or fried (matzah brei,
chremzelach) [Erev Pesach she-Hal be-Shabbat, R. Zvi Cohen, chap. 21,
parag. 5 and note 10].

3) In order to assure that matzah will be eaten with a zest Seder
night, Haza"l forbad eating cooked or fried matzah or matzah ashira
(see section II.C below) products starting from mid-afternoon (samuch
le-mincha ketanah; 3 sha’ot zemaniyot before sunset), which is 3:57 PM.

B) Bread (Hametz)
1) Rabbinically, it is forbidden to consume hametz on erev Pesach (which
this year falls on Shabbat) after 9:53 AM (end of 4 sha'ot zemaniyot).

2) All hametz must be removed and "Kol Chamira" recited by 11:15 AM
(end of 5 sha'ot zemaniyot).

3) Hametz may be removed by flushing it down the toilet.

C) Matzah Ashirah (Matzah made without water using fruit juice or eggs).
1) Sefaradim use matzah ashirah on Pesach. The custom of Ashkenazic Jewry
is to refrain from eating it, unless one is elderly or ill (OH 462:4).
Matzah ashirah is not hametz, and may be stored in the house (ibid.,
MB no. 16).

2) There are three views regarding the time from which this Ashkenazic
stringency begins: a) From the same time as it is Rabbinically forbidden
to eat Hametz [i.e., 9:53 AM] (IM, OH, I, 154, 155; R. Joshua Katz
and R. Elisha Aviner); b) from noontime [12:39 PM], which is the time
it is Biblically forbidden to eat Hametz (Resp. Nodah be-Yehudah 28);
c) from samuch le-mincha ketanah [i.e., 3:57 PM; sec. II.A.3] (Derekh
ha-Chaim, Hilkhot Pesah; Arukh ha-Shulkhan OH 444:5; R. Eliezer Silver;
R. Nachum L. Rabinovitch; see also Yehaveh Da'at, I, sec. 91, no. 12).
d) Children may eat Matzah Ashirah all erev pesach. (R. M. Feinstein
quoted by R. S. Weissman).

3) Normally one makes a mezonot before and al ha-Mihyah after eating
matzah ashirah. However, when it is used as bread - particularly for
a seudat mitzvah (like a Shabbat meal) - and is eaten together with
other foods, one recites ha-motzi and birkhat ha-mazon. [IM, OH, I,
154; Yehaveh Da'at, I sec. 91, no. 12; Erev Pesach she-chal be-Shabbat,
chap. 15, note 17]. A minimum of a kezayit [~29.6 cc or approximately
1/3 of a Matzah - Shiurim de-Rabbanan based on "Halachos of Pesach"
R. Shimon Eider, sec. XXI.D.7; according to R. Nachum L. Rabinovitch 20
cc is sufficient] is required for birkat ha-Mazon [OH 184:6]; however,
one should preferably eat at least the volume of a ke-beitzah (~59 cc or
approximately 2/3 matzah according to R. Shimon Eider; 40 cc according
to R. Nachum L. Rabinovitch) to fulfill the obligation of seudat shabbat
[OH 291:1, MB no. 2].

D) Kitniyot (The custom of Ashkenazim not to eat rice or lentils
on Pesach). Pri Migadim (Eshel Avraham, OH 444, no.2) permits eating
kitniyot on Erev Pesach, and indicates that the prohibition of kitniyot
is only on Pesach proper. Nevertheless, Hok Yaakov (OH 471 no. 2) forbids
eating kitniyot on Erev Pesach (from 9:53 A.M.), and this seems to be the
general custom (Resp. Shevet HaLevi, III, end of sec 31; Nitei Gavriel,
Hag HaPesach, II, Chapter 38, no. 14). Kitniyot may be eaten Friday
night. Kitniyot are not hametz, and may be stored in the house.

III. Options for Three Meals:
A) Friday Night: use Bread (Challah or pita -- the latter makes less
crumbs), Matzah (if your custom permits it) or matzah ashirah. If bread
is used: Make ha-Motzi over two hametz challot AWAY from the table. Eat
the Challot over a paper towel or hametz plate, collect all crumbs and
dispose of them by flushing them down the toilet. Wash plate in bathroom
sink and put it with the hametz dishes. Wash out your mouth and hands
and continue with your Kasher le-Pesach meal.

B) Shabbat Morning: use bread or matzah ashirah.
1) If you intend to use bread (Challot) - daven at the early minyan
Shabbat morning and finish eating your challot and washing out your mouth
before 9:53 AM. Continue with you Kasher le-Pesach meal. Finish the
clean up and recite kol chamira before 11:15 AM.

2) If you intend to use matzah ashirah: a) If you follow the most
stringent position (see section II.C.2.a) then attend the first minyan,
and finish eating the matzah ashirah before 9:53 AM. b) If you hold
like either of the two more lenient positions (section II.C.2.b or c),
you can attend the regular minyan and finish eating the matzah ashirah
by 12:39 PM or 3:57 PM, respectively. c) In all cases, BE SURE TO SAY
KOL CHAMIRA BEFORE 11:15 AM. It can be said Shabbat morning before Shul.
If you have no intention of using hametz at all on Shabbat, kol chamira
can be said already on Friday after you have removed all your hametz.

C) Seudah Shlishit:
1) One approach is to eat two meals in the morning, separated by a period
of interruption (go for a walk, read a book etc.). If you are using
hametz or matzah ashirah [and you follow the most stringent position
(sec. II.C.2.a)], then both meals must be finished before 9:53 AM. If
you hold the middle position in matzah ashirah (section II.C.2.b) you
have to 12:39 PM.

2) A second approach is to eat products made from cooked or fried matzah
pieces or matzah mehl (section II.A.2) or matzah ashirah [if you hold the
most lenient position (section II.C.2.c)]. Make mezonot and al ha-michyah
-- unless you eat ~236 cc (ca 2.7 matzot), in which case you make ha-Motzi
(Yehaveh Da'at, I, sec. 91, no. 12; according to R. Nachum L. Rabinovitch
120-150 cc is sufficient). Use them before 3:57 PM.

3) Use fruit, meat, fish or potato starch cakes and macaroons, even after
3:57 PM.  Be sure not to fill yourself up, so you will have an appetite by
the evening.

PDF file in English available at -
http://www.amyisrael.co.il/berman/MatzashEnglishShul5765DST.pdf;
PDF file in Hebrew available at -
http://www.amyisrael.co.il/berman/MatzashHebrew5765DST.pdf

Hag Kasher ve-Sameah!

--------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer
Ethel and David Resnick Professor
   of Active Oxygen Chemistry
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900, ISRAEL
E-mail: FrimeA@mail.biu.ac.il

**********************


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