Avodah Mailing List

Volume 05 : Number 006

Sunday, April 9 2000

• Re: RYBS comparing irreligious Jews to Esav
• "For I was Selfish"
• Re: Dor Revi'i and Satmar Rov
• Re: aniyei ircha: (ATT vs TTA)
• Re: eating matzah and maror together
• RYBS criticising secular Israeli leadership
• Re: Matza shiurim
• Re: aniyei ircha: (ATT vs TTA)
• Re: aniyei ircha: (ATT vs TTA)
• Re: Fw: Ruchani Eye on Rabbi Ovadaih Yosef, shlita
• Re: aniyei ircha: (ATT vs TTA)
• Aniyei Ircha
• Re: Charedi Chiloni, and Dati, United or Divided?
• Re: Charedi Chiloni, and Dati, United or Divided?
• Article About Charedim Working on the Net
• Possible new Anglo-yeshivish community
• First Annual Avodah Pesach Get Together in Israel
• Inflammatory language about secular Zionists
• Re: Inflammatory language about secular Zionists

For 4 years, I went every Motzai Shabbat to the Rav's Shiur at Maimonides.
In 1968, he called secular Israelis "neo-pagan Canaanites". It was only
that year when I graduated and went to Israel did I understand what he
was referring to.

Josh

A derashah hit me about Aichah 1:11. It reads:
    Kol `amah ne'enachim
    mevakshim lechem
    nasnu machmadeihem ba'ochel
    lihashiv nefesh;
    ri'ei Hashem vihabitah
    ki hayisi zolelah

The last clause is difficult. "Hama'ayan" for "Sazri`a" quotes the "Shevet
Mussar"'s question. Why are we asking Hashem to look BECAUSE we were
selfish?

The SM's answer is that we appeal for Hashem's mercy because someone who knew
wealth suffers more at its loss.

I want to add my own "kineitch". This greater suffering has halachic impact.
One is mechayev to support an ani in the manner he was accustomed. A former
g'vir is supported to a higher standard than someone who has lower expecations.

Perhaps that the point here to. In asking from rachamim from HKBH, we make
a halachic demand, not just an appeal for greater pity. After all, nations
that never had a Beis haMikdosh suffer less in its absence that we do --
even though the last two times we came to take it for granted.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  7-Apr-00: Shishi, Sazria
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 21a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Haftorah

It would seem that the Satmar Rav himself thought of the Dor Revi'i as a
ba'al dovor.

HKBH's comment toward the end of seifer Iyov seems to indicate that we only
bother debating the challenges of [near] equals.

-mi

On Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 12:22:51AM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
:>                                           Maybe he
:> should give it all to Tzedaka.  Maybe we should all
:> give our earnings to one big Pot and take out whatever
:> the Gedolei HaDor deem appropriate living expenses for
:> Torah observant Jews. Do you see where I'm going here?

: Communism? :-) 

I know "communism" has become a dirty word, but I don't want to prejudge
the subject. How do we know halachah doesn't aspire to communism? (I know
that in my father's day, religious Zionism promoted communism and kibbutzim.)

Communism's bad name comes from implementations that ended up being closer
to fascism, not from communism itself.

:                         maybe they should be looking at how to enjoy 
: their wealth without flaunting it as much.

Remember that when the mishnah speaks of "ayin hara" it refers to the
middah of jealousy. It would seem that not taking care to avoid jealousy
is a quick way for someone to lost the think they are flaunting.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  7-Apr-00: Shishi, Sazria
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 21a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Haftorah

On Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 02:54:33PM -0400, C1A1Brown@aol.com wrote:
: The chachamim must hold they are independent chiyuvim
: because otherwise how could you be yotzei by eating
: matzah and maror seperately?  The chiddush is that 
: *even* if eaten together you are yotzei both chiyuvim.  

: Anyway, it is the gemara itself which writes that there
: is no bittul (within Hillel's shitah) because mitzvos
: ain mevatlos zu es zu.  

Okay, so I need to back off a bit. Although, there is still no indication
that just because the gemara invokes mamze"z that it counts the mitzvos
as separate elements of the 613.

An interesting question that might be impacted: does anyone say that one
needs to eat a kezayis of koreich, not a ketzayis of each element of the
koreich? If it's one chiyuv then there's only one achilah, so one k'zayis
would be sufficient.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  7-Apr-00: Shishi, Sazria
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 21a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Haftorah

In a message dated 4/8/00 5:58:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jonathan Schwartz 
writes:
<< I am a bit lost as to your sources for the "so called error" on Harav
 Blau's part. After reading your assertions that Rabbi Blau's comments were
 not vintage "Rov" who made comparisons of irreligious Jews to Pharoh, and
 Esav, I rushed to check my copy of 5 Derashos all of which were presented
 to the Mizrachi. While the Rov notes that "Arab bullet and the Arab knife
 didn't distinguish between the Hebron Yeshiva students and  leftwing
 kibbutzniks" (p. 22) and that "the alter of cone, traverse the land does
 not relate exclusively to us religious Jews. All Jews who took part in
 building the land, erected it. (p. 23). He notes that the Rov broke with
 his family and joined the Mizrachi simply because of his view that secular
 Jews are employed "as instruments to bring to fruition His great plans
 regarding the land of Israel."(p. 36) none of these comments seem to
 support this assertion of the Rov's comparison of Secular Jewry to Esav
 etc.  >>
I myself heard the Rav do so and heard tapes where he does so. It is not at 
all surprising that the Mizrachi didn't reprint these derashot. Anyway, since 
the examples are to numerous to quote, I will just quote Professor Gerald 
Blidstein, from Exploring the thought of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik: " In 
derasha after derasha secular Israeli leadership is midrashically assimilated 
to the non-Jewish oppressor: Esau, Pharoa, Avimelekh, Abraham's servant lads, 
Amnon and Moab. . . . the secular Jew had ceased being a real Jew . . . "

It is always also important to distinguish between secular leadership, which 
the Rav like R. Ovadya criticizes, as opposed to the average secular Israeli 
citizen.

Toby Rubinson

Micha Berger wrote:


> A cubic etzbah (in parallel to a a cubic cc or cubic inch) would be a volume
> that is 1 etzbah high x 1 etzbah wide x 1 etzbah deep. It is a measure of
> volume, and therefore can be translated to some fixed liquid volume measure,
> some number of k'beitzos or k'zeisim.



Makes sense. Thank you. It's what I thought it was.

I asked around over Shabbat, and found that yes, there is a "big
mahloket" between Ash/Seph regarding how to measure a kezayit. We say
weight, and you say volume. 

Most of the folks I see on  Shabbat are Sefaradim who heve their
semichah from Ner Israel, where, as I've mentioned before, R' Weinberg
z"l insisted that they keep Sefaradi minhagim, but they went to the same
shiurim with the same rabbeim as the Ashkenazim, so it was pointed out.
Whereas you and I went to yeshivot that weren't so "integrated", and
didn't have the differences come up so often.

So it's not an overlooked difference, at least not to those who notice
such things.

Shavuah Tov.


---sam

On 7 Apr 00, at 3:57, Harry Maryles wrote:

> 
> 
> --- "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il> wrote:
> >.
> > 
> > Rav Sheinberg spoke about the lack of shailas in
> > Hilchos Tzedaka 
> > or about Hilchos Tzedaka?
> 
> Hilchos Tzedaka, specifically prioritizing donations,
> what is and isn't Tzedaka, whether Citywide Tzedakos
> come first and how much one is suppopsed to reserve
> for in town Tzedkos vs out of town Tzedakos, etc. 

So nu.... What did he say?

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

On 7 Apr 00, at 10:11, Markowitz, Chaim wrote:

> Carl M. Sherer wrote:
> 
> > We have had such symposiums here. I believe that R.
> > C.P. Sheinberg once spoke about this very issue, but I
> > don't think much was accomplished.
> > 
> 	Just out of curiousity, what did Rav Sheinberg say on the issue?
> 

You were quoting me quoting RHM, but I hope he will answer that 
question. I understand that someone else spoke about this issue in 
a community which is represented on this list - maybe someone 
who heard in person will discuss it?

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

On 7 Apr 00, at 8:46, Micha Berger wrote:

> RYGB forwarded from "Yeshivat Benei N'vi'im":
> : Were, however, his statements politically wise?  Well, let's analyze the
> : results.
> 
> : The Haredi world is uniting; this is good.
> 
> However, this unity of Adas Yisrael (the observant community -- both chareidi
> and dati) is at the expense of unity of Am Yisrael. 

I don't think that's correct. I think that that part of secular Israel that 
is not leftist is not exactly taking to the streets in support of Yossi 
Sarid. It's no secret that Ehud Barak himself would like Sarid to 
back down. 

I'm not in a position
> to estimate the relative values of the price vs the gain. However, RYBS chose
> creating a great divide between mod-O and the RW for the sake of the unity
> of Am Yisrael in the SCA. 

I'm not sure RYBS saw it in quite those terms. If he did, I'm not 
sure he agreed in his later years that putting MO in a camp with 
the chilonim pitted against the Charedim was an acceptable 
consequnece of the SCA decision. RYBS also told the Mafdal not 
to go into the government in 1973 (Rabin's first government) unless 
they got Giyur keHalacha (which they did not and they went in 
anyway, but that's another story). Had that happened, MO and RW 
would have been pitted together against C and R in the US.

Perhaps this is a dati vs chareidi (or mod-O vs RW)
> thing.

If anything, I suspect that MO (or DL as its known in Israel) hates 
Sarid as much or more than Shas does.

> Unity around a common problem won't outlast the problem. The unity is therefore
> illusory. The anger generated, however, may not be. I therefore think that
> even chareidim should not be happy with the consequences.

Obviously we would all be happier if ROY didn't have to say the 
things he did. But no one here is questioning whether he should 
have said them. Certainly not in the RW camp, and very little (that I 
have seen anyway) in the DL camp.

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

On 8 Apr 00, at 21:46, Micha Berger wrote:

> I know "communism" has become a dirty word, but I don't want to prejudge
> the subject. How do we know halachah doesn't aspire to communism? (I know
> that in my father's day, religious Zionism promoted communism and kibbutzim.)

If halacha aspired to communism, I think we would be required to 
give a lot more than maaser, and we would not say "hamevazbez al 
yevazbez yoser me'chomesh."

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

On 6 Apr 00, at 23:29, sadya n targum wrote:

> Harry Maryles wrote:
> > 
> > > What about the fact that many of these Askanim give
> > > money to institutiions outside the city? There is one
> > > individual who opledged $250,000.00 to Lakewood
> > > Yeshiva. Should he have diverted that donation to
> > > Chicago's institutions? How would Lakewood survive
> > > without these kinds of donations? Yeshivas Mir in
> > > Yerushalayim depends on it's very existence on
> > > donations outside it's own environs. Shoud we in
> > > Chicago take care of our own and let Mir fend for
> > > itself? 
> > > 
> > > Is this what is meant by Anyei Ircha Kodmon?
> 
> Carl Scherer responded: 
> 
> > I think that depends on why they are giving money to Lakewood 
> > and Mir. If they are giving money to Lakewood and Mir because 
> > they or their children learned there, then I think that's b'geder 
> > hakoras hatov, and may be analogous to giving money to family 
> > members, which actually comes *before* aniyei ircha (see the 
> > Rambam in Matnos Aniyim 7 and the Shulchan Aruch in YD 251). 
> > 
> > If there is no such connection, then I think the local schools 
> > should 
> > come first. Maybe not as an absolute, but certainly as a higher 
> > priority.
> 
> Is aniyei ircha exclusively a question of geographic location when
> applied to institutions? I.e., if there is a choice for a Chicagoan
> between supporting a day school in that community or one in, say, St.
> Louis, certainly. But if the choice is between a local day school and
> Lakewood or Mir, both of which serve Chicago as well, shouldn't they be
> considered as aniyei ircha? Worded differently: it is not an institution
> of education that is the beneficiary of tzedaka, but its talmidim.  If
> there  are talmidim in an out-of-town institution who are residents of
> the donor's city, don't they qualify as aniyei ircha?

I think there is room to support a Lakewood or a Mir. Nevertheless, 
your local day school should come first for a very simple reason. 
Lakewood or Mir can draw upon alumni all over the world. Your 
local day school generally receives little support outside your local 
community. As much as you may feel gratitude to Lakewood or Mir 
because people in your community learn there, I think that unless 
you learned there yourself or have children learning there, the local 
community school (where your children likely learn) has to come 
first and get a larger contribution.

JMHO, not a posek and so on (and I did not get to research this 
over Shabbos, so I am speaking totally without mareh m'komos :-) 

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

a few minor points:
1) i don't know how many constitute "many"; however
only a few hundred (less than 500) haredim have done
the nahal haredi course.
2)it would seem to me that both groups are getting
more secular; just go to the movie theater in Malha
and see who is waiting in line.
3) the tal commission has yet to issue its report;
however many secularists like sarid have said that
they oppose it becuase at maximum a yeshiva student
would do 4 monthns training and then get an job in one
of the easier units.  the tal report does not in any
way what so ever provide for an equal sharing of the
burden. the army service proscribed by the tal report
is not regular army service. what it really does is it
gives haredim who want out of the yeshiva world a way
out; one which will allow them to enter the secular
learning and employment world.
4) as far as dressing goes - az mah if someone dresses
in a modern style as long as the requirements of
modesty are fulfilled.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

> From: Shaul Wallach

>    On the contrary, I see the Datiim in Israel going more in the 
> direction of the Haredim recent years and the Haredim becoming more
> influenced by secular values. For example, the fact that Haredi
> Rabbanim object so strongly to the use of video, CDROM's and Internet
> shows how much they have penetrated into the Haredi world.

> the Dati religious observance approaching and even surpassing that of
> the Haredim in some areas. I have already mentioned beards for men and
> hair covering for women as examples. And here at Bar-Ilan, the
> Minyanim for Minha are complete with Hazara and Tahanun. On the Yamim
> ha-Nora'im, I see Dati men wearing the Kittel at the Machon ha-Gavoah
> la-Torah.

The difference Haredim and Datiim is not defined by lifestyles or
clothing. It may be that a majority of Haredim wear a more conservative
dress code, and that many do not imbibe many of the modernities but in
essence a Charedi is not forbidden per se to take advantage of the 20th
and 21st centuries' advances in technology. Charedim are not the 'Amish'
of the American Bible Belt. Ever heard of a Charedi refusing to use a
telephone because it's from the 20th century?

That 'Datiim' put on a kittel or say Tachanun really has nothing to do
with being from the 'Datiim' group. And are not the Charedim also
'Datiim'.

Also with such large numbers encompassing both the 'Dati' and 'Charedi'
world, these labels tend to lose their definitives.

There are those on the peripherals such as Chardalniks spanning the gap
between what we call charedi and dati, as there are others sitting on the
fence between being dati and chiloni.

No, the difference lies in "hashkafa" which includes obedience to rabbinic
dictates from the majority of current day Talmidei Chachamim.

Charedishe hashkafa is built around what will or can enhance Judaism and
Yirat Shamayim both in the fields of gashmyiut and ruchniyut (materialism
and spiritualism - or hardware and software in computer geek!).

Thus anything which detracts from that type of hashkafa such as television
in terms of gashmiyut and philosophy in terms of ruchniut has been banned
by most of the Charedishe Rabbonim.

There are other modernities that are dependent on who, when and where. Use
of internet at work for business use only is allowed, email at home is
allowed. Learning for a degree for the sake of parnossa outside of the
walls of co-ed universities is generally allowed.

The image of the cloistered medieval charedi is slowly evaporating.
Today's Charedi Jew generally knows his priorities, that the Torah world
and yeshiva type learning comes first, and only as a bedieved where
the responsibilities of parnossa are of a pressing need, that he will
venture out into the secular world resplendent in his long black coat, hat
and peyot as a constant reminder of his hashkafa.

Daniel
wells@mail.biu.ac.il

The goyim treat us pretty fairly in this article (IMHO anyway). 
Check out this article about the Charedi Technological School: 
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/04/06/haredi/index.html

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

Thought this might be of interest to someone, now that I have you 
all convinced to come on aliya :-) 

-- Carl

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent:      	Sun, 09 Apr 2000 15:11:48 +0300
To:             	Informal Aliyah discussion group <tachlis@shamash.org>
From:           	David Rier <rierda@mail.biu.ac.il>
Subject:        	Possible new Anglo-yeshivish community
Copies to:      	trading@americantradserv.com

Posting on behalf of my brother-in-law, Michael Freedman.  
Kindly contact *him*, at the e-mail address below.

	Are you interesting in learning more about a possible new Anglo-yeshivish
community, now in the planning stages, to be located 1/2 hour from
Jerusalem?  Private homes, clean air, beautiful scenery.  Some areas to be
under auspices of Rav Mordechai Tendler, shlita.
	Contact Michael Freedman at:  trading@americantradserv.com

------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium  http://shamash.org
------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------=


------- End of forwarded message -------


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

Adina and I are pleased to invite those list members who will be in 
Eretz Yisrael for Chag HaPesach ha'ba aleinu le'tova to the First 
Annual Avodah Pesach Get Together in Israel. The get together will 
IY"H be held in our home, on the fifth day of Chol HaMoed, 
between 10:00 A.M. and 1:00 P.M. (For those who are curious 
about the timing, we did not want to take one of the two days 
people can potentially go on trips with their families, and we figured 
that although this is Erev Chag, it is a long day). 

You are welcome to bring your children as well - we have a large 
backyard, a park next door and a park across the street.

We live in Yerushalayim. I am reluctant to put our address, 
telephone number and directions to our home on an archiveable 
format, but if you send me private email to this address, I will be 
glad to send you all the details. 

Also, if you do not eat gebroks, please let me know and we will try 
bli neder to have something other than water available for you :-) 
(My wife's family does not eat gebroks, so traditionally we do have 
specifically non-gebroks food in the house). 

We hope IY"H to have a special guest from the US, and one of my 
sons has made some noises about making a siyum in honor of the 
occasion.

RSVP no later than 13 Nissan if you plan to come. IY"H I do not 
plan to be in the office during Pesach.

Chag Kasher v'Sameyach.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

It may be worthwhile to distinguish at least four different complaints
about rhetoric and attitude:

1. Unbalanced language: One-sided accusations that, for example, stress
religious failings of secular Israelis without acknowledging their efforts
in building the land, defending it and so forth.

2. Inflammatory language: Even if you present a nominally balanced
approach, specific items of rhetoric, comparisons to Nazis, Amalek and so
on, may inflame passions and distort reality. Conversely, one may abstain
from inflammatory language, yet convey a one-sided version of the truth.

3. Direct calls for violence.

4. Building bridges to the other side: This may be accomplished in spite
of excesses regarding ##1-2. Conversely, one may be careful about one's
language and nevertheless fail to make contact with the other side.

The language used by R. Ovadia on the recent occasion, and quite often in
the past, is certainly unfortunate. I do not know of similar language in
the writings of R. Soloveitchik or R. AI Kook. I heard many criticisms of
secular Zionism from the Rav zt"l, both in public and in private, but no
name calling. Both the Rav and R. Kook, to the extent that I can judge
from his writing, were very careful not to engage in excessive rhetoric
even with regard to non-Jews who were indifferent or mildly hostile to
what we hold dear. It is unimaginable for them to throw rhetorical "red
meat" to the hamon.

It is reported, and has NOT been denied, that R. Ovadia explicitly warned
his followers not to take his words as a call to violence. Moreover, there
is no evidence that his language has indeed caused violence. Surely this
is relevant to any assessment of the situation. The provocations presented
by the "other side" may be less of an excuse, but are also part of the
larger picture.

Given the realities of Israeli politics, it is probably impossible for the
Attorney General to ignore the speeches. One can only pray that his office
doesn't make too much of them. Thirty years ago the leftist philosopher
Jean Paul Sartre engaged in various forms of illegal behavior to show his
opposition to the government. De Gaulle, the man whom he was directly
offending, instructed the government not to prosecute: "Sartre also is
France. It would be like prosecuting Voltaire."

R. Ovadia is probably a greater posek, especially in his own community,
than Sartre was a philosopher (and I don't mean this as a deprecation of
Sartre). One wishes that he controlled his crowd-pleasing rhetoric a bit
better, but if I were Barak I would say, "R. Ovadia too is Israel."

On 9 Apr 00, at 11:36, Shalom Carmy wrote:

> Given the realities of Israeli politics, it is probably impossible for the
> Attorney General to ignore the speeches. 

I'm not sure this statement is correct, although that is water under 
the bridge at this point. Those who appreciate what civil liberties 
are supposed to mean have, in many cases, said that this is not a 
matter for the police or the courts. There is a (well-based IMHO) 
perception on the right here that the right, Charedim and 
Sephardim are treated differently than the leftist "intelligentsia." An 
opportunity to change this perception has been missed at least 
three times in the last month (ROY, the Ezer Weizmann 
investigation, the Netanyahu investigation). 

One wishes that he controlled his crowd-pleasing rhetoric a bit
> better, but if I were Barak I would say, "R. Ovadia too is Israel."

I assume you mean Ehud Barak and not Aharon Barak. I agree 
with you, but at this point, I think it is out of Ehud Barak's hands.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

*******************


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