Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 284

Wednesday, January 12 2000

• Re: Re[2]: Haredim and Internet
• Re: How is Rav Soleveitchik ztzl considered modern Orthodox?
• Vending Machines on Shabbos
• Re: Shul attendance and talking
• (Fwd) Re: Religious Hiring Problems, yep. WAS: try try again
• RE: Mixed Seating
• RE: Mixed Seating
• RE: Conservative/Reform/Orthodox/Whatever - Who cares?
• Re: Avodah V4 #279
• Re: (Fwd) Re: Religious Hiring Problems, yep. WAS: try try again
• the role of women and its kedusha.
• Re: Intrinsic value, kashrus vs arlah
• Re: Kavana beTfilah
• Re: Kavana BeTfilah and Shelo Asani Isha

On 12 Jan 00, at 11:19, Sammy Ominsky wrote:

> richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Let's  created a kosher ISP, that flashed little diveri torah or reminders such 
> > as shovisi or other mnemonics, that might keep a person focused and prevent him 
> > from straying into questionable web-sites.  If the problem is getting lost in 
> > the web, then the solution is a guidance system that keeps us from getting 
> > lost.
> 
> 
> This is easily do-able. Know where I can find investors?
> 
> Really. I mean it.
> 
> You're right. It would take real huzpah to access inappropriate sites with
> a pop-up Shiviti window.

How much money do you think you would need? I deal with venture 
capital for a living (business sig below) and I have several Charedi 
clients who might be interested if I asked them.

-- Carl

P.S. We should probably take this off the list. I only put this 
message on in case someone else is interested and to do a little 
shameless self promotion :-) 


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
29B Keren Hayesod Street
Jerusalem 94188 Israel

mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il

Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Facsimile 972-2-625-0461

On 12 Jan 00, at 4:11, Harry Maryles wrote:

> On the other side of the coin I have heard that
> Chasidic poskim are more Mekil than Misnagdic Poskim
> when it comes to paskening hilchos Nidah (Ksomos). 

AFAIK this has nothing to do with Chassidic and Misnagdic. It has 
to do with the Mesorah from which the posek learned, which is 
often connected with the quality of the nutrition(!) in the place 
where the original Mesorah developed. For example, Hungarians 
are VERY machmir, because nutrition in Hungary was excellent, 
they only saw red or clear, and therefore they have no Mesorah for 
colors not being red. In Yerushalayim where nutrition was not good, 
there is a lot of Mesorah being matir many colors as not red, and 
therefore Yerushalmi poskim are among the most meikil in this 
area. (No, I'm not making this up :-) 

> They also have something called a Mitzvah Tanz where
> the Chasan and Kallah hold hands while they dance,
> after the wedding is over and mostly only family
> members remain which seems a little ridiculous
> considering the lengths they go to to separate men and
> women during the more public wedding and Seudah. 

Last spring I was at the Bostonner Rebbe's granddaughter's 
Chasena and although the women sat upstairs in a balcony during 
the seuda, they came downstairs for Sheva Brachos (sat on the 
opposite side of the room), and the mitzva tance took place about 
half an hour after bentching (12:30 A.M.) when most of the crowd 
was still there.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

On 12 Jan 00, at 10:15, Stein, Aryeh E. wrote:

> With respect to vending machines on Shabbos, I recently heard R' Frand
> discuss this issue, and he explained that, in order to alleviate problems of
> doing business on Shabbos, the owner of the vending machine should have in
> mind (before Shabbos) the following two things regarding any person who buys
> something from the machine on Shabbos:
> 
> 	1) to be makneh the item to the person before shabbos; and
> 	2) not to be koneh the money that is deposited in the machine until
> after Shabbos (while a person's chotzeir is koneh shelo midaas, it is 	not
> koneh if the person has specific daas not to be koneh). 

Why wouldn't the money be assur altogether as schar Shabbos? 
Why not just turn the machine off? Or donate all the money from 
Shabbos to tzedaka?

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

On 12 Jan 00, at 10:42, Cynthia Tenen wrote:

  And -- here's a 
> woman's concern -- how can we possibly teach our children, who are also in 
> shul, *respect for other people,* if their own fathers show such 
> disrespect?  And then excuse it with what sounds like self-serving 
> rationalizations, which any smart kid can spot a mile away?  Come on, guys!

What makes you think this is only a mother's concern? My two 
non-infant sons have been going to shul with me regularly since 
they were 2-3, and my daughters have sat in the men's section 
with me until they were around 7 (one daughter is 5 and still sits 
with me in the men's section). In the States we davened in 
Yeshiva, so talking was never much of a problem and running 
around outside was rarely one. In Israel, many, many kids run 
around outside (with the streets closed in many neighborhoods it's 
quite easy), and I have had occasions where I have had to be quite 
firm with my kids that this was not proper conduct, that one does 
not go to shul to play, that if they want to play they should do so at 
home, etc., etc. There is very little talking in my shul here in 
general (which is why I daven there), and there are less kids in shul 
because we daven netz. But on Yomim Noraim more people than 
normal daven netz, and when my wife came to shul on Rosh 
haShanna, and davened outside both the men's and ladies' 
sections in case the baby cried, some boys running around 
knocked a bookcase on her head!

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

I had a discussion off list with RHM last week about why I was 
opposed to Israeli businesses being open on Shabbos. I told RHM 
that I was opposed to it not out of any desire to "coerce" chilonim 
into observing Shabbos, but out of fear that being able to work on 
Shabbos would become a job qualification in Israel, much as it was 
in many large law firms in which I worked in the US. 

It turns out that we are much closer to that in Israel than I ever 
thought. This is one of several postings on the subject that 
appeared on tachlis ("practical questions and answers about 
aliyah") today. Does this make anyone want to reconsider their 
"religious coercion" arguments?

-- Carl

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent:      	Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:35:14 +0200
To:             	Informal Aliyah discussion group <tachlis@shamash.org>
From:           	Yael Meyer <emeyer@actcom.co.il>
Subject:        	Re: Religious Hiring Problems, yep. WAS: try try again
Copies to:      	tachlis@shamash.org

At 16:47 12/01/00 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
>Things are very different
>here. There are no age discrimination laws and other descrimination laws
>are NOT enforced.  There is a complaint in process against INTEL for
>not hiring relegious jews. There may not be a case, but there are enough
>complaints to take it seriously.

Got to add a couple of things to clarify this.  Geoff is absolutely right 
when he says things are very different here -- But there are 
anti-discrimination laws (including a law that makes age discrimination 
illegal; even sexual preference discrimination is illegal).  The thing is 
that they are rarely if ever enforced.  Just last week I saw a job ad in 
the Jerusalem Post for someone "up to age 35".

Also, it's my office that is representing the electronics engineer who was 
not hired because he is shomer Shabbat.  The case is not against Intel - 
rather against a company that is closely associated with Intel.  Oh yes, 
Intel did turn him down too (as did a bunch of other high tech companies), 
but Intel was smarter in how they went about it.  The company we're suing 
flat out told him that they wished they could hire him, but he had to be 
willing to work on Shabbat.  By the way, neither Intel nor any of these 
companies has the proper authorizations for requiring Shabbat work from the 
Labor Ministry.  In this case we're talking about violations of 4 separate 
laws.  So what, they did it anyway and only the stupid one is likely to pay 
for their violation!

So expect to be asked about any subject!

--
Yael (at home in Jerusalem!)

------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium  http://shamash.org
------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------=


------- End of forwarded message -------


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

--- "Stein, Aryeh E." <aes@ll-f.com> wrote:

> R. Rogov ZTL, when asked
> about mixed seating by one of his brightest
> talmidim,
> Rabbi Erwin Giffen ZL, whose wedding was mixed,
> answered, "In Lita zennen mir nit geven makpid" (In
> Lithuania we weren't Makpid)."
> 
> Personally, I don't understand why it should be
> "upsetting."  If someone
> wishes to impose upon himself certain restrictions,
> and decides not to place
> himself in a situation where he may be exposed to
> "un-tsniusdika" sights,
> this should be admired, not derogated. 

It's not that it is a self imposed restriction. That
is in and of itself fine. However, if a Gadol acts in
this manner, he has an audience... of admirers and
emulators, it seems to be sending a message that mixed
seating is such a Minhag Garua that it is best not to
attend such affairs. I'm sure that if a Gadol were
invited to such an affair and it was well known that
he does not sit mixed, a "men only" will be set up for
him. The problem is that often there are situations
that require mixed seating, even if the Chasan and
Kallah would prefer seperate seating. Why should
people who do have mixed seating be disrespected in
this way?

HM
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--- "Stein, Aryeh E." <aes@ll-f.com> wrote:

> R. Rogov ZTL, when asked
> about mixed seating by one of his brightest
> talmidim,
> Rabbi Erwin Giffen ZL, whose wedding was mixed,
> answered, "In Lita zennen mir nit geven makpid" (In
> Lithuania we weren't Makpid)."
> 
> Personally, I don't understand why it should be
> "upsetting."  If someone
> wishes to impose upon himself certain restrictions,
> and decides not to place
> himself in a situation where he may be exposed to
> "un-tsniusdika" sights,
> this should be admired, not derogated. 

It's not that it is a self imposed restriction. That
is in and of itself fine. However, if a Gadol acts in
this manner, he has an audience... of admirers and
emulators, it seems to be sending a message that mixed
seating is such a Minhag Garua that it is best not to
attend such affairs. I'm sure that if a Gadol were
invited to such an affair and it was well known that
he does not sit mixed, a "men only" will be set up for
him. The problem is that often there are situations
that require mixed seating, even if the Chasan and
Kallah would prefer seperate seating. Why should
people who do have mixed seating be disrespected in
this way?

HM
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--- Akiva Atwood <atwood@netvision.net.il> wrote:

> Actually the fight is for Giur K'Halacha -- which is
> very different from
> leaving it in the hands of the Rabbanut, which is a
> political organization.
> 
> There have been too many scandals over the last few
> years regarding
> conversions for there to be a blanket acceptance.

I realize that it is about Giur K'Halacha. But I
always thought that all Orthodox factions were on the
same page and that the Ikkar is to eliminate the Giur
She Lo Kehalacah of the R and C.  According to what
you indicate above, however, it seems that if this
fight is won, there is another fight just around the
corner between all of the factions in Orthodoxy about
acceptance of each other's Gereim.

Why am I not surprised by this?

HM


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>
><< asn't it Dr. Lamm who objected to the phrase MO?
>  Didn't he want to redfine it as "Centrism"?
>
>  If Dr. Lamm and YU are defined as Centrist, what
>  defines MO? Actually how WOULD one difine Centrism?
>

When I was a student at Rav Riskin's yeshiva he explained he used the term 
centrist orthodox because too many people, called themselves modern orthodox 
to justify violating halacha.  IE Mixed dancing, mixed swinning, teffillen 
dates, bitul Torah, eating out dairy etc.

I, like most people, have heard individuals justify these violations of 
halacha by stating they are modern.  To attempt to avoid being accociated 
with those errors, he redefined his ideology as centrist.
______________________________________________________
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This is very sad!

HM

--- "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il> wrote:
> I had a discussion off list with RHM last week about
> why I was 
> opposed to Israeli businesses being open on Shabbos.
> I told RHM 
> that I was opposed to it not out of any desire to
> "coerce" chilonim 
> into observing Shabbos, but out of fear that being
> able to work on 
> Shabbos would become a job qualification in Israel,
> much as it was 
> in many large law firms in which I worked in the US.
> 
> 
> It turns out that we are much closer to that in
> Israel than I ever 
> thought. This is one of several postings on the
> subject that 
> appeared on tachlis ("practical questions and
> answers about 
> aliyah") today. Does this make anyone want to
> reconsider their 
> "religious coercion" arguments?
> 
> -- Carl
> 
> ------- Forwarded message follows -------
> Date sent:      	Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:35:14 +0200
> To:             	Informal Aliyah discussion group
> <tachlis@shamash.org>
> From:           	Yael Meyer <emeyer@actcom.co.il>
> Subject:        	Re: Religious Hiring Problems, yep.
> WAS: try try again
> Copies to:      	tachlis@shamash.org
> 
> At 16:47 12/01/00 +0200, Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> wrote:
> >Things are very different
> >here. There are no age discrimination laws and
> other descrimination laws
> >are NOT enforced.  There is a complaint in process
> against INTEL for
> >not hiring relegious jews. There may not be a case,
> but there are enough
> >complaints to take it seriously.
> 
> Got to add a couple of things to clarify this. 
> Geoff is absolutely right 
> when he says things are very different here -- But
> there are 
> anti-discrimination laws (including a law that makes
> age discrimination 
> illegal; even sexual preference discrimination is
> illegal).  The thing is 
> that they are rarely if ever enforced.  Just last
> week I saw a job ad in 
> the Jerusalem Post for someone "up to age 35".
> 
> Also, it's my office that is representing the
> electronics engineer who was 
> not hired because he is shomer Shabbat.  The case is
> not against Intel - 
> rather against a company that is closely associated
> with Intel.  Oh yes, 
> Intel did turn him down too (as did a bunch of other
> high tech companies), 
> but Intel was smarter in how they went about it. 
> The company we're suing 
> flat out told him that they wished they could hire
> him, but he had to be 
> willing to work on Shabbat.  By the way, neither
> Intel nor any of these 
> companies has the proper authorizations for
> requiring Shabbat work from the 
> Labor Ministry.  In this case we're talking about
> violations of 4 separate 
> laws.  So what, they did it anyway and only the
> stupid one is likely to pay 
> for their violation!
> 
> So expect to be asked about any subject!
> 
> --
> Yael (at home in Jerusalem!)
> 
> ------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org
> -----------------------+
> Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium 
> http://shamash.org
> ------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org
> -----------------------=
> 
> 
> ------- End of forwarded message -------
> 
> 
> Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
> Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
> Telephone 972-2-625-7751
> Fax 972-2-625-0461
> mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
> mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il
> 
> Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my
> son,
> Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of
> Israel.
> Thank you very much.
> 
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Dear Shoshana and chevra,

To tell you the truth, I did not hurry to answer this one, expecting all our
learned chevra to bring beautiful long presentations with meqoros.  I did
not feel qualified to contribute at the level you requested,  with my simple
understanding and my sad habit of forgetting my sources- (and little time to
rediscover them!).  Since you've all been so busy with other threads I won't
hold back.

There is a gevaldig comparison of a woman's work in the home with the avodah
of the cohen gadol. It does indeed have a source-  but of course I've
forgotten it, so I'll trust some kind obliging member to perhaps recall it.

We bake-  they bake.   We bake our cakes, our challes, our kugels or
whatever they may be.  The cohenim bake their lechem hapanim. We can bake
with high kavanot-  for the nourishment of our family so that we can all do
avodas Hashem. We bake cavod Shabbos. We bake to please our families and so
enhance Shalom bayis.  (Yes, O.K. men can bake too:-).  Akiva bakes a
fantastic loaf)   but I get to do the mitzva of hafrashas challa. It's worth
looking into that mitzva in depth,  it is very powerful.
In addition to the lechem hapanim the cohenim are also dealing with the meal
offerings. Flour, oil, spices-  vital ingredients in the Beis hamikdash and
vital ingredients at home.

We roast, they roast.   They roast the korbanot,  the chatas, the shlamim,
the toda.. all the different grades of kedusha involved.  Again, we roast
our meat cavod Shabbos kodesh, and in order to enhance simchas yom tov.
Again, we provide nourishment in order to build our guf and perform mitzvot.
If we behave properly at the table in terms of brochos, in terms of divrei
Torah and in terms of derech eretz, then our table is like a mizbe'ach and
the food is actually mekaper for us.  Who can be instrumental in achieving
this atmosphere of kedusha?  The wife, the mother, the woman.

The cohen prepares the lights of the menora and lights them. Interestingly,
al pi halacha, the hadlaka does not have to be done by a cohen, but the
hatavas haner does.
We light Shabbos lights every week, welcoming the shchina into our homes.
There is also much which can be said about this mitzvah-  worth
investigating the sources here.

The cohen is makpid in all inyane Tumah and Tahara.  (For this I don't have
to cite sources, I can wave my hand in the general direction of your Shas!).
A woman is obligated in her part of Taharas Hamishpacha-  a myriad of
details, all earning zchut, all leading her in the direction of  tahara and
kedusha.

We already see the three classic mitzvos of women-  all with powerful
parallels in the Beis hamikdash.  The single girl still has two of these.

The cohen wears garments which become soiled through his avoda-  as do we.
Laundry!
The Beis hamikdash needs sweeping out... well, we've already dealt with
sweeping!
What was the first mitzva of the day in the Beis hamikdash?  Trumas
hadeshen-  taking out the old cinders.  In the home, preparation of the
fireplace was always considered the most menial, dirty and thankless task.
When I was a girl, growing up in north west England, I used to watch my
mother cleaning out the grate before putting new coal on the fire. Gosh,
that dates me!  Yet, the cohenim used to sprint to the mizbe'ach for the
honour of performing  this task.   Now it's so simple,  (unless you have an
old Israeli neft heater! :-)
just put in the plug, set the thermostat and throw the switch. Still,  the
oven and stove are quite a task....

We talk about mitzvot which are metzuveh and which are not metzuveh-  in
terms of chinuch, tefila, learning, having children.  Ultimately, does it
really matter, if it is taking us and our families in the direction of
kedusha?
The heartfelt tefilos and tehillim said by our Jewish women are probably
generating great zchut and bracha for clal Israel.  (The great zchut of
sincere tefila said by children is recognised, and they aren't metzuveh
either).  We're not just accumulating schar in olam haba-  we're building a
dira b'tachtonim for Hashem in this world.  We know that we don't get as
much schar as someone who is metzuveh-  (what does this actually mean, all
other things being equal? Half the schar? More? Less? Anyone know?) , but
all our kavanna, all our time spent in gemilus chassadim for our families
and for others,  mamash with mesirus nefesh, must add up to an awful lot-
both for our own souls and for clal Israel & the world in general.

Mrs GA
===================================================

> Going back to the top:
> The assertion is that the Avos kept kol haTorah kulah. According to R'
Chaim
> Vilozhiner, this is because they could feel the chisronos in their
nefashos,
> and were able to deduce the proper actions without a tzivui.

Very good, thanks.  So this would seem to imply that re mila there WAS no
chisaron before the tzivui. Could we say that Avraham Avinu reached a stage
in his spiritual development where his status changed in such a way that
something which was not a chisaron, now becomes a chisaron?
To put it in really mundane terms-  a person gets a promotion from factory
floor to administration.  Before he didn't need a suit so a suit was not a
chisaron for him. In his new position he needs a suit. Avraham Avinu was
advancing from private individual to father of monotheism.  At his new level
(for reasons we don't understand) din orla applies and lack of bris became a
chisaron. Before that point a tzivui was not appropriate. >

> It's not a question of what was revealed, it's a question of what kind
> of lack could the avos feel, and what kind not.

Both revelation and a 'feeling of lack' would imply a level of da'as. Is
this da'as inherent to the Avos or did it come to them later as a result of
their spiritual refinement?

> Mitzvos have two roles: they impose a value -- mitoch shelo lishmah ba
lishmah;
> and they allow the expression of a value already held. Perhaps we could
say
> that by not making women mechuyavos we are saying that the mitzvah need
not
> be done if there is no desire to. IOW, a woman doesn't require this
mitzvah
> in order to be instilled with some particular nekudah. However, by saying
> there's zechus in its voluntary fulfillment we are saying that if she
wants
> to express this value, the mitzvah is a proper way to do so.

If you can be patient with this simple student a little longer:  this
paragraph has me rather baffled.  Could you please explain what you mean by
imposing a value and expressing a value in terms of the succa, and of a
woman's choice to sit in it?    beintayim, kol tuv. Mrs GA

> <<For years my mind would automaticly wander as I began to say the Amidah
>  by rote. Trying to have Kavanah on the same words 3 times a day is very
> difficult, at least it is for me.

It's MOST of us! (even chassidim :-)
Tefila is an avoda shebalev.
Emphasis on avoda. Emphasis on lev.
It's an avoda because we constantly have to bring our minds back to focus on
the words.
If we space out for two words we're already in orbit.
Lev-  it's not a sechel exercise- (obviously apart from understanding what
the words mean)
it's a time to arouse the love and awe in our hearts.

davar rishon-  use a siddur!  Don't do it by heart. It is too easy to get
into a groove.
Rav Segal of Manchester zatzal was always makpid to use a siddur, even for
borei nefashos.  If we recite it by heart we're not using those parts of the
brain that are fully conscious-  at least not for any sustained length of
time.

davar sheni-  try to spend some time before davenning trying to arouse love
and awe. We can't daven meaningfully without it.  One gadol used to look at
the sky before davenning in order to inspire awe. We could also follow the
Rambam mentioned in a recent post and contemplate the wonderful design in
nature, in a child, to inspire love.

If we take a moment to pause each time we reach shem hashem, and try to
reach for and know that love and awe on pronouncing these names, we'll get
to "da lifnei mi ata omed"

It's also an excellent practise probably familiar to many of you-  to give
tzedaka beforehand.

(Some of you guys might be chassidim yet... :-)    Mrs GA

Are Women more spiritual
> beings? Are they a more perfect creation of G-d's..
> therefore not requiring Mitzvos Aseh She HaZman Grama?

According to the Maharal women have souls which are more shayach to olam
habah whereas men have souls (no less, sometimes more powerful ) which are
shayach to olam habah.... scroll on.

> Doesn't this put them in category with a Shotah as
> they are also patur in Mitzvos, therefore, even more
> perfect in the eyes as G-d? Is it better to be more
> perfect?  If this is why we say Shelo Asani Isha,
> because it is better to be less perfect and to require
> more mitzvos to acheive perfection? Should women be
> upset that they are more perfect?

Re last question-  This member is not upset about it! <g> (Once, (obviously
when I wasn't paying proper attention) I did accidentally say "she lo asani
gever" . )
One clearly  can't compare a woman to a shotah since we're obligated in the
dinim of nezikin, arayos etc  and shotim are not as I understand.  Nope, we
have to take adult responsibility.  One could say that we have fewer
opportunities to connect with G-d on the  intense level of a mitzvah
situation.  Tephilin and tzitzis are very powerful connections- and you guys
should feel duly privileged. We don't need them so we have to do without
them.
Personally, that never made me feel deprived.

Earthly analogy-   some kids need a bit of extra tutoring and develop really
great friendships with their tutors that last a lifetime. The kids who don't
need the extra tutoring miss out on these special friendships.  The kids who
are academically OK tend to have a more impersonal relationship with most of
their teachers.        Mrs. GA

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