Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 224

Tuesday, December 28 1999

• Orthodoxy and the Land of Israel
• Pragmatism
• (Fwd) Fw: [Efrat] Mission Accomplished -- in under two hours!!
• Re: Avodah V4 #222
• Re: Moshe Rabbeinu's Free Will
• Re: Orthodoxy and return of land
• Re: Begin
• RE: Orthodoxy and return of land
• return of land
• G'dolim
• Return of Land
• Re: return of land
• Re: Orthodoxy and the Land of Israel
• Re: visitation right (wing)

David Finch writes:

> Thus far I've been reluctant to weigh in on the Avodah line on the Great 
> Debate over giving up EY territory to the Palestinians. But I agree 
> wholeheartedly that RYGB's thinking on the subject is "highly nuanced." It's 
> also really gutsy. Not all of us have his courage.

With all due respect to RYGB (and I have great respect for him and 
don't in any way mean to cast doubt upon his motives), he is 
making an argument that is much easier to make from Chicago 
than from almost anyplace here in Israel. 

It is perhaps instructive to look at the reaction of the Golan settlers, 
most of whom voted for Barak, but who are now turning against him 
in droves because he is doing exactly what he said he was going 
to do (that much credit I will give him). IMHO the Golan settlers are 
one of the great examples in our generation of NIMBY syndrome, 
with a large dose of selfishness mixed in. After Rabin was elected 
in 1992, they abandonned their traditional alliance with the Yehuda 
v'Shomron settlers, deciding that their homes were "more 
strategic." It is only now that some of them are starting to see the 
error of their ways. Personally, I am against giving the Golan to 
Syria because I think it will endanger Israel's security, but not out 
of any pity for the Golan settlers who might lose their homes. They 
brought this on themselves.

> I've noticed in the thread of argument on this subject, a disheartening 
> cynicism -- even contempt -- for the role Ehud Barak's military background 
> might have played as he developed his positions on peace negotiations. Many 
> of the RW think of him as a sell-out who never understood the issues in the 
> first place, or was willing to compromise his understanding to the highest 
> bidder. 

Actually, thus far I have been pleasantly surprised by Barak. Had 
Shimon Peres been elected (R"L) we would already be back at the 
1967 borders with a country that is eight miles wide at its 
narrowest point. But I don't think that Barak's military mind is what 
is dictating strategy here. What is dictating his strategy is staying 
in power (which, fortunately, requires answering to the 50% of the 
country that is not willing to give something for nothing - it was 
Barak who was elected and not the Labor party or Sheretz, 
something Yossi Sarid conveniently forgets). I really believe that 
Barak will genuinely do his best to cut the best deal he can. What I 
fear is that he will not have the strength to abandon the 
negotiations if the PLO remains intractable on issues like 
"refugees," Yerushalayim, water and disarming, and that the 
philanderer living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue will try to squeeze 
the vise on him. Anyone who watched Netanyahu be cajoled and 
lied to at Wye last year cannot help but worry what will happen 
when the ladies' man begins working his "charm." 

I also think that Barak really needs a right wing opposition to help 
him stand up to the pressure - something that Netanyahu lacked, 
something that overwhelmed Peres, and something that was 
suppressed (viciously) by Rabin.

 The IDF does not tolerate the sort of loose thinking in which 
> the rest of us get to indulge. 

Eight years of living here and becoming more and more of a cynic 
with each passing day has taught me that the IDF isn't what it 
used to be either.

> I've also noted the blood hatred for Palestinians even among the more 
> soft-spoken Avodah contributors. I don't have an opinion on this: I don't 
> live there, and I don't see what they see and fear what they fear. I am still 
> very suspicious of any political strategy based on hatred. Historically, 
> these strategies don't have much of a track record, at least not where 
> humanistic (i.e., Torah-like) values are held dear. Who wants a Jewish state 
> premised on oppression? Why even have a Jewish state premised on oppression?

I think you're dead wrong on this historically. The "Palestinians" are 
a creation of the Arab states. They don't exist as an independent 
entity except to the extent that they have been built up by the Arab 
States and their apologists in the west. Look at the true stories of 
Arafat's and Said's backgrounds (among others) which have come 
out in places like Commentary over the last couple of years. To the 
extent that there are Arabs who are indigenous to the Land of 
Israel, most of them are willing to live in peace with us, and most of 
them have nothing to do with the PLO leadership.

Jews have survived 
> because Torah is utterly portable. It teaches us to dream of the Promised 
> Land, but it seems to have worked best, at least during the past millenium, 
> when carried on the backs of Jews migrating from one hostile place to another 
> in Europe and the Middle East. Judaism has thrived in golus. Torah Judaism is 
> experiencing a virtual rebirth in the American golus. Maybe we'll get what we 
> deserve when we prove to HaShem that we deserve it. That proof will come from 
> what we do in golus, not EY.

So you're suggesting that we should all stay in golus? That we can 
throw away the mitzvos of Yishuv Haaretz and all of the mitzvos 
hatluyos baaretz until Mashiach comes? Maybe you want to 
reinstate the Shvuous? Maybe those of us who have had the guts 
to move here should pick up and come back because Judaism is 
being reborn in the American golus?

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Richard Wolpoe writes:

> TV, Internet, VCR's, microphones retc. are morally neutral not hostile.  
> Mechanchim should be out in front of exploiting media to teach Torah.
> 
> EG, I propose that cartoonists illustrate the Mishkan, the Mikdash and the 
> Avodah of YK. Using animation, no one will be balsphemed by the apperacne of 
> real people in the garb of a kohein gadol.  And then we can visualize what it 
> was about.  I for one find visualizing the Mikdash and the Vaoda as a 
> tremendouse challenge.  I have lained truma and Tetzave about 20 times each w/o 
> really knowing what's going on in terms of a "picture".  yes the 2-dminesional 
> aids are ok, but 3-d tehcnogoly is avaialable.

Although this doesn't go as far as what you propose, you and 
others should be aware that there is an excellent series of tapes for 
children which deal with (off the top of my head) bringing Bikurim, 
the Avodah of Yom Kippur, the Korban Pesach and a couple 
others. There are 5 or 6 tapes in all. They are in both Hebrew and 
English (in our continuing interest in having our children speak 
English, we bought the English set in Yerushalayim). They are put 
out by Talmud Torah Nachala, 8 Brand Street (Har Nof), 
Yerushalayim). Telephone numbers 02-651-8455 in Israel, 914-352-
3976 in the US. Highly recommended.

-- Carl


Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"DANNY & BATYA EHRLICH" <DANBAT@actcom.co.il>
To:             	Informal Aliyah discussion group <tachlis@shamash.org>
Subject:        	Fw: [Efrat] Mission Accomplished -- in under two hours!!  Call off the search!  Thank you for your help.
Date sent:      	Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:03:00 +0200

The following was received from Lenny Ben David. Thanks to all who
responded.


Danny
-----Original Message-----
From: Minister of Mission <bendavid@israelemb.org>
To: 'rocdavis@erols.com' <rocdavis@erols.com>
Cc: 'JustinG@erols.com' <JustinG@erols.com>; 'Marcia Frank'
<frank@h2.hum.huji.ac.il>; efrat@webskills.co.il <efrat@webskills.co.il>;
'editor@jewishweek.org' <editor@jewishweek.org>; 'Black@JewishAmerica.com'
<Black@JewishAmerica.com>; 'Mdavis@ymail.yu.edu' <Mdavis@ymail.yu.edu>;
'barryg@us.ibm.com' <barryg@us.ibm.com>
Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 9:32 PM
Subject: [Efrat] Mission Accomplished -- in under two hours!! Call off the
search! Thank you for your help.


>Dear Friends,
>
>The Talmud teaches that if someone finds an object with distinct
>characteristics in the public domain, he/she should go to the market and
>proclaim "I found this object."  The owner comes, makes his claim, and the
>object is returned.
>
>Well, I think we've discovered that there is a modern-day international
>Jewish market for proclaiming lost objects, and it works within a matter of
>hours!
>
>At 12:17 PM  I sent out the email looking for the owners of the seforim.
>
>At 12:55 PM my cousin B.G. in NY contacting me with Malka Kaganoff's number
>in Jerusalem.  By 1:20 PM my sister in Jerusalem had contacted Ms. Kaganoff
>and received the information that the couple was living in Baltimore.  By
>1:40, I had found the owner via telephone information.
>
>We will work out the arrangements for him to pick up the seforim.
>
>Yehuda reports that his father-in-law already heard via internet that the
>box was found.
>
> He said that he received one box several months ago; a second one showed
up
>at the Embassy; and the third one is still missing.  So, if someone out
>there finds it, now we know how to return it to its owner.
>
>FYI:
>
>The following message was received at 2:11:
>
>Thanks for getting in touch with me.  It is amazing how Hashem hides his
>hand in the most mundane of human affairs.  Wow!
>
>My wife and I will be coming down to Silver Springs on Friday) for Shabbos.
>Where should we pick up the box of seforim
>
>Thanks,
>
>Yehudah Goldberg
>
>P.S.  I can't wait to see how far this story goes!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> T H E     E F R A T    C O M M U N I T Y    M A I L I N G   L I S T
> Sponsored by VOICES         Sharon Katz            izzy@actcom.co.il
>               WebSkills Internet Content & Marketing:
> e-mail: info@webskills.co.il   web: http://www.webskills.co.il
>

------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium  http://shamash.org
------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------=


------- End of forwarded message -------
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

----- Original Message ----- > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999
17:38:45 -0500
> From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
> Subject: Re: Pragmatism
[del for bw]

> TV, Internet, VCR's, microphones retc. are morally neutral
not hostile.
> Mechanchim should be out in front of exploiting media to
teach Torah.
>
> EG, I propose that cartoonists illustrate the Mishkan, the
Mikdash and the
> Avodah of YK. Using animation, no one will be balsphemed
by the apperacne of
> real people in the garb of a kohein gadol.  And then we
can visualize what it
> was about.  I for one find visualizing the Mikdash and the
Vaoda as a
> tremendouse challenge.  I have lained truma and Tetzave
about 20 times each w/o
> really knowing what's going on in terms of a "picture".
yes the 2-dminesional
> aids are ok, but 3-d tehcnogoly is avaialable.

Then you should be pleased to know that such an animated
film exists:  It is called

Pesach BaMikdash

and tells the story of a young child who goes with his
grandfather to the Mikdash, on the Regel, for the first
time.

It is published by Machon HaMikdash.  They used to have a
web site where you could purchase it.  They are intending
(if they haven't already) to publish further animated films
on the rest of the holidays.
phone number:
03-6264545

Shoshana L. Boublil

>
> I hope this helps!
> Rich Wolpoe

>
> The Meshech Chachmah resolves the problem by saying that Moshe achieved
the
> highest heights of purity, and so HaShem removed his Bechirah; thus, every
> time Moshe spoke from then on, it was without Bechirah, and HaShem could
be
> sure that Moshe would not mis-speak.
>
> So here's the question - how did Moshe come to hit the rock?
>
One interpretation is that the people were not zocheh because of their
doubts and complaints.  Moshe Rabenu had to option to act or speak.  If he
would have chosen to speak, he would not have had bechira in his words. He
was faulted for this decision, but you could argue that the fact the tragedy
of the people's loss of MR was at least as great as MR's loss of Eretz
Israel, since if MR entered the land with Bnei Israel the redemption would
have been complete. See also Likutei Mehoran #20  (vol 3 from Breslov
Research Inst. ) for a deeper understanding of the inyan.

On 27 Dec 99, at 18:00, Harry Maryles wrote:

> I've come to the conclusion, along with the majority
> of the citizens of the State of Israel that the time
> has come to take a chance for peace.  

On what basis do you conclude that the majority of citizens of the 
State of Israel (let alone the majority of its Jewish citizens) agree 
with you? Ehud Barak was elected prime minister as much 
because of the perceived incompetence of the Netanyahu 
government as because of anything else. The left wing parties 
certainly did not win a majority in the Knesset. If Peres had run 
against Netanyahu, he likely would have lost!

Secondly, "taking a chance for peace" is a platitude. It's like 
asking people in a poll, "are you in favor of peace?" Who is going 
to say no? (In fact, part of the genious of Rabin was that he largely 
succeeded in depicting those who opposed his policies as being 
"enemies of peace"). But when you ask WHAT chances people are 
willing to take for peace, that's where it all breaks down. I think that 
in his heart of hearts, Ehud Barak is not willing to go a whole lot 
further in giving up land than he has gone already - at least not in 
Yehuda v'Shomron (much to the dismay of the left). And in the 
Golan, to the extent that he gives up anything, I believe he will 
insist on the kind of long waiting period which some generals 
(notably Avihu ben Nun - former commander of the Air Force) are 
insisting on. What I am afraid of is that the "shitat hasalami" will go 
too far before it becomes clear to him that the Palestinians are not 
willing to give on ANYTHING.

Third, when you make a major existential decision for a country, 
don't you think it ought to have the support of something more than 
"a majority?" Do you know what it takes to ratify a treaty in the 
United States? Do you know what it takes to amend the 
constitution? Say what you will about the treaty with Egypt, at 
least it had the support of something like 90 Chavrei Knesset. So 
saying that "a majority" wants to "take a chance for peace" begs 
the question. To take the kind of major risks we are being asked to 
take here requires (or should require) the agreement of much more 
than a simple majority.

Too much blood
> has been spilled.  These are our children fighting and
> dying, RL. Of course no one would sign a peace deal if
> it was perceived to be a ploy on the part of the Arabs
> to take back Palestine in stages or to weaken Israel
> strategicly and militarily.  But I believe that the
> Arabs can no longer hope to regain all of Palestine. 
> They've tried and failed.  True, the Arabs hate us and
> given the opportunity, they'd drive us into the sea. 
> But, I think they've finally realized it's impossible
> so they've embarked on a path that will give them as
> much as can.  They've finally accepted the "Infidel
> Jew" as their neighbor. The rhetoric has changed.  I
> know that when they speak Arabic to the masses they
> talk of ultimatly retrieving all of Paestine but this
> is just "feelgood talk" which, if foolish, is designed
> to appease the fundementalists among them.  

Aderaba. What they tell their own people in Arabic is what matters 
most because that is what will change the man in the street's 
attitude towards us. And that is what is sorely missing. The 
comparison between the Cairo Agreements and the agreement of 
Muhammed with the Koraish tribe (a comparison Arafat made when 
he thought the microphones were off in South Africa a few days 
after the Cairo Agreements were signed) is more harmful to us than 
the platitudes he throws to us at the White House are helpful. 
Because it's words such as those that ensure that his public 
knows that this is just a part of the "phased solution."

I'm sure
> that the Israeli intelligence commmunity, (the Mosad)
> knows full well what is really going on amongst the
> Arabs politically or the Islamic Fundementalist
> extremists. They are the real danger to the peace
> proccess. They are the rejectionists who strike
> whenever there is even the slightest move towards
> peace.  They consider it a holy war worth dying for in
> order to recapture Palestine. 

And what percentage do you think those people make up of the 
Arabs in the "territories?" And what makes you think that the DFLP 
is any better or that the PLO wouldn't behave the same way if 
Arafat doesn't keep them in line? And what happens when Arafat 
dies (assuming you have faith in him)? Who takes over? That great 
example of human rights Jibril Ragoub? Do you know that the 
Chamas has won just about every university election that has been 
held in the last six years? (University elections here grant control 
over a budget for "student activities." The only university I know of 
where the same type of thing goes on (or went on when I knew 
people there) is the University of Michigan).

But we can't let fear of
> terrorism deter us in Israel any more than we should
> let it deter us anywhere else. 

Come here on a one way ticket, put your own rear end on the line, 
and then let's hear you say that. That's a very easy statement to 
make from Chicago. It's much harder to make when you live 300 
meters from an Arab village (which was 500 meters away when we 
moved in - lest you think that illegal building is a fiction).

> I think we can rely on those poskim who say that
> Pikuach Nefesh justifies giving up land.

I have yet to hear any posek say that in THIS situation with THIS 
agreement, it is justified to give up land. I have heard a lot of 
poskim say that in SOME situations, with SOME agreements it is 
permitted to give up land to save lives (and frankly, that is closer to 
my own political views than anything else). I have heard a lot of 
poskim say that it is never permitted. I have heard one posek (Rav 
Kadourrie - not exactly known to be a religious Zionist) say that in 
this situation it is not permitted to give up land in the Golan.

> To quote or paraphrase Menachem Begin when he signed
> the peace treaty with Sadat:  No more war.

One VERY big difference between the Sinai as opposed to the 
Golan and YOS"H. The Sinai was a huge buffer zone that could be 
demilitarized. It was removed from both countries' population 
centers. Not true with the Golan and YOS"H.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

On 28 Dec 99, at 2:25, moshe rudner wrote:

> >BTW - the architect of that brilliant
> >move is today a partner in a Washington DC law office - nothing
> >like having the courage and conviction to live with your decisions
> ><sarcasm noted>.
> 
> 
> Do you think that it's loshon hora to tell us his name or more information 
> about him? I think that this is an important point and if you can provide 
> more details (being as the word is already out and it may be litoelet) I 
> would really appreciate it.

The former legal advisor to the Foreign Ministry, who carried out the 
"secret negotiations" in Oslo and presented Yitzchak Rabin with a 
fait accomplis, is now a partner in the Washington office of a large 
Chicago law firm. I leave it to someone else to disclose his name 
and the name of the law firm, but suffice it to say that AFAIK he 
has no intention of returning to Israel. The dream of many Israelis....

> May Hashem either give us seichal to act in our best interests vis a vis the 
> Arabs, or may he deem us hopeless and shomer psayim hashem and revach 
> vihatzola ya'amod mimakom acher.

Amen v'amen (with the literal meaning of "revach v'hatzala" and not 
bilashon sagi nahor as it is in the Megilla).

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

> comparison between the Cairo Agreements and the agreement of
> Muhammed with the Koraish tribe (a comparison Arafat made when
> he thought the microphones were off in South Africa a few days
> after the Cairo Agreements were signed)

And has been repeated by Arafat many times since then, at least once this
past year.

Arabic Educational TV for kids under 12 years old is *full* of Jihad
messages. Praises for the martyrs who blow themselves up killing Jews.
Scenes of kids holding rifles and bombs pledging to liberate palestine with
their blood. Poems about how the Jews came and slaughtered palestinians.

what message are these kids growing up with?

Are they promoting peace or hatred?

Akiva


===========================
Akiva Atwood
POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274

Moshe Rudner wrote:
> I realise that a religious Jew who supports the "peace" process might > feel like an "intellectual" and a freethinker for boldly being > different

Interesting, those same accusations were made against me when I bought a
metal table and chairs with a glass table top for my dining room rather
than a yidishe mahogany wood suite.

Less facetiously though, to feel more Jewish and less of a freethinker
must one worship a shrine to a mass murderer or is it sufficient to
follow a gun toting Rabbi? Less of 'loy sesaeyv mitsri', and that after
the first half of seyfer shmoys, and more of 'loy sekhaye kol neshomo'?
Less of masey yoday tovim bayom and more of am hadoyme lakhamor stuff?
Is that the way to feel less different? I should think that concurring
with the majority of the Israeli electorate means being less not more
different.

How times are a changing. In Northern Ireland we have the Rev. Ian
Paisley who eyn koykhoy elo bepe while in Israel his counterpart Rabbi
Levinger wields a gun. One wonders who it was that received the
'blessing' of al kharbekho tikhye.

Dovid Herskovic

It seems pointless to talk about "the right way" to produce
a godol.
G'dolim have been produced in many venues - Rav Aharon
learned
in Slabodka, Rav Chaim Ozer in Volozhin, the Chazon Ish by
himself,etc.  Why must we ceaselessly look for the one
correct
route?

Melech

M. Press, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology, Touro College
mpress@ix.netcom.com or melechp@touro.edu

Obviously this conversation would never end unless someone (say, the
listowner?) artificially ends it.

So, let the other guy get in the last word, he probably is in digest mode and
hasn't seen this email yet, and let's move on.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 28-Dec-99: Shelishi, Shemos
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Pisachim 90b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         

On 28 Dec 99, at 13:11, david@arctic1.demon.co.uk wrote:

> Less facetiously though, to feel more Jewish and less of a freethinker
> must one worship a shrine to a mass murderer or is it sufficient to
> follow a gun toting Rabbi? 

Funny. I must have missed the praise for Baruch Goldstein on this 
list yesterday. Who said it? 

I don't follow Rabbi Levinger (in fact, I think it was his divisiveness 
that put us in the position we are in today - had he not been so 
bullheaded about running independently in 1992, we would not have 
been left with both his party and Tchiya below the minimum with 
the resulting votes giving the left the victory in the election). AFAIK 
neither R. Akiva nor Reb. Shoshana do either. R. Richard can't 
because he doesn't live here. So who does? Or are we all 
"extremists" because we don't agree with your call for mass 
suicide from your comfortable home in... London is it?

I should think that concurring
> with the majority of the Israeli electorate means being less not more
> different.

I don't think the "majority of the Israeli electorate" is anything other 
than "pro peace." What that means varies from one member of the 
electorate to another.

> How times are a changing. In Northern Ireland we have the Rev. Ian
> Paisley who eyn koykhoy elo bepe while in Israel his counterpart Rabbi
> Levinger wields a gun. One wonders who it was that received the
> 'blessing' of al kharbekho tikhye.

Rabbi Levinger is far less prominent than is Ian Paisley these days, 
and for a lot of reasons Israel is not Northern Ireland. 

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

I apologize for being both an armchair and a Monday morning quaterback...

nevertheless it seems clear that the crisi with the IDF - and in ISrael in 
general - is a spiritual one.  And the reverbertaions are being reflected in the
IDF, etc.

Perhaps Carl's Cynicism is another symptom of the underlying spritual want.

Certainly it would be ideal if 100% of the Jews in Israel became sincere Shomrei
Torah umtizvot, but even short of that ideal there seems to be a Call for SOME 
move towards traditional values, kedusha, Torah, etc. - even if it falls short 
of total observance.

Rich Wolpoe 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
<snip>
 The IDF does not tolerate the sort of loose thinking in which 
> the rest of us get to indulge. 

Eight years of living here and becoming more and more of a cynic 
with each passing day has taught me that the IDF isn't what it 
used to be either.

<snip>
-- Carl

Cc: <gershon.dubin@juno.com>; <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: visitation right (wing)
>
> Leaving the definition of school stream (wide) open,  the schools I sent
> to were basically in the same stream but in different flavors.  I am not
> sure if even this exists in Israel.
>
> Gershon

It exists in Jerusalem-  same stream, different flavours but a narrower
bandwidth of flavours.  If you go too far over on the more "open" side of
the spectrum you can endanger your chances of getting another child into a
place on the other side if that's right for him/her.  Result being, some of
the kids are not going to get the most fitting education for them  at that
stage of their lives.  One has to supplement carefully and/or wait
opportunities later in life.   Mrs. GA

*********************


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