Avodah Mailing List

Volume 03 : Number 069

Saturday, May 29 1999

• Re: Voting in Israeli Elections
• Re: Electicity
• Re: Halacha by consensus (was:Electricity)
• Re: 13 Ikkarim - Inadvertent Disbelief
• Re: Loshon Horoh - Wives
• Re: Loshon Horo - Wives
• Re: Voting in Israeli Elections
• Re: Voting in Israeli Elections
• ikkarim

On Fri, 28 May 1999 Joelirich@aol.com wrote:

> Assumedly the issur of participating is that it grants the government
> legitimacy? If so wouldn't taking government funds be in the same
> category? 
>

They don't take. 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

On Fri, 28 May 1999 richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:

> Also, I would say that 100 years ago, the issue was still being debated,
> IOW there was no consenus at THAT time, but there is now.  So even if
> you prove that Oruch Hashulchan was an electical mr. wizard, I would
> still say that the consensus has overruled him by now. 
>

Consistent with your approach to halacha - but not necessarily with mine
:-). 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

On Fri, 28 May 1999, Moshe Feldman wrote:

> maintain his position.  BTW, I have been told by someone in the know
> that certain gedolim during the past couple of decades used to turn
> lights on and off on Yom Tov. 
>

Same misunderstanding. See ROY's Yechave Da'as on the topic. 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

REC! Such brevity!

On Fri, 28 May 1999, Clark, Eli wrote:

> >The Rambam there simply says there is no excuse ("hitnatzlus") for those
> >who believe in hagshama - he does not state anything about their Olam
> >Ha'Ba.
> 
> Really?  In my version, he goes on to such a person is a kofer.
>

Of course he is a kofer - that is the same language the Rambam employs by
Minim in the Yad. But there is no proof that the "nebbech apikores" or
"nebbech min" or "nebbech kofer" is doomed to lose his OH. 
 
> >Ra'avad's are made to farenfer - the famous R' Chaim ad loc cit comes to
> >mind...
> 
> Perhaps.  But others agree with this reading, including the Tashbetz in
> Ohev Mishpat and Abravanel in Rosh Amanah.
>

Sorry, a proof that does not constitute. 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

Does the principle of Ishto k'gufo have any relevance here?

David Glasner
dglasner@ftc.gov
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

While I like your dvar torah, I am a bit confused.  On the one hand
you suggest that "al tarbeh sicha" refers to flirting and then say
that Yitzchak was "mitzachek et rivka"--flirting with her!

--- Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org> wrote:
> Rich Wolpoe raised the subject of "al tarbeh sichah... b'ishto
> amru..."
> 
> It reminds me of a d'var Torah. Perhaps, like my last look at
> tephillah,
> someone will find a flaw -- or perhaps a confirmation.
> 
> According to Hirsch, the mishnah is talking about light frivolous
> conversation.
> I took this to mean flirting.
> 
> Which brings a whole new meaning to "lasu'ach basadeh". It casts
> Yitzchak's
> relationship to HKBH in a very Shir haShirim-esque light. Add to
> that that
> the av most associate with avodah is named Yitzchak, and we are
> told that
> Avimelech sees him "mitzachek es Rivkah ishto".
> 
> Then we have the Chassidim haRishonim, who went to the fields and
> greeted
> the Shabbos Bride, a practice that later expanded to include such
> things
> as Shir haShirim, Yedid Nefesh and Licha Dodi.
> 
> Flirting with G-d...

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In a message dated 5/28/99 4:12:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu writes:

<< 
 > Assumedly the issur of participating is that it grants the government
 > legitimacy? If so wouldn't taking government funds be in the same
 > category? 
 >
 
 They don't take. 
 
 YGB
  >>
Perhaps not directly, but surely they use state-subsidized 
services(transportation, social, defense,food subsidies.....). I guess my 
point is that if you really don't want to grant a government legitimacy, and 
you have the ability not to live under that government's jurisdiction, 
shouldn't you take advantage of that right?

Shabbat Shalom
Joel Rich

You place me in the uncomfortable position of defending a school of
thought I find distasteful, but fair is fair - they, the yishuv ha'yashan
- were there first.

On Fri, 28 May 1999 Joelirich@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/28/99 4:12:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu writes:
> 
> << 
>  > Assumedly the issur of participating is that it grants the government
>  > legitimacy? If so wouldn't taking government funds be in the same
>  > category? 
>  >
>  
>  They don't take. 
>  
>  YGB
>   >>
> Perhaps not directly, but surely they use state-subsidized 
> services(transportation, social, defense,food subsidies.....). I guess my 
> point is that if you really don't want to grant a government legitimacy, and 
> you have the ability not to live under that government's jurisdiction, 
> shouldn't you take advantage of that right?
> 
> Shabbat Shalom
> Joel Rich
> 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

>>>Tangentially, Do shut talk about the prohibitionm of saying Modim. Modim 
or 
Shema twice as a function of appearing to confirm "shtei reshuyos"?<<<

What is there is talk about after you read the Mishna?  

-CB

********************


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