Avodah Mailing List
Volume 02 : Number 150
Wednesday, February 3 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:58:51 +0200
From: Robert Werman <rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Rav Aharon Soloveichik
We were asked to make mishebeyrachs for Rav Aharon
Soloveichik, Shalit"a [Aharon ben Pesia, haLevi].
It would be nice if we had a followup on his
status, y'zche l'hayim aruchim.
__Bob Werman
Jerusalem
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:22:38 EST
From: JoshHoff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Avodah V2 #149: sin of Dovid HaMelech
R.Ahron Soloveichik once explained the gemara about Dovid HaMelech in a manner
similar to the one suggested in the last Avodah mailing.The gemara is only
saying that he didn't transgress the issur eishis ish.Howevwr, he did
transgress lo sachmod.
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:59:42 +0200
From: Ben Waxman <bwaxman@foxcom.com>
Subject: RE: Avodah V2 #149
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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ENOUGH!!!!!! THIS IS CHAIN OF LETTERS HAS GONE OVER SO MANY ISSURIM, I DON'T
KNOW WHERE TO START!!!!!!
NO ONE CARES TO WHOM YOU WERE REFERRING!!!!! STOP IT ALREADY!!!! WE ALL
KNOW WHAT THE GEMARA SAYS ABOUT SOMEONE WHO CALLS SOMEONE ELSE A
MAMZER!!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:22:11 EST
> From: LIPPYESQ@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Jewish Center
>
> I just wanted to clarify, that in my calling the Gabbai of the JC
a Mamzer, I
> WAS NOT , repeat WAS NOT reffereing to Rabbi I. Weitzchner. I
know Rabbi
> Weitzsner has the title of Executive Director of the JC, and I do not want
> to
> confuse him with another person.I have never known Rabbi Weitzshner to be
> mean
> in any way whatsoever. I do not know the name of the degenerate who
> publically
> embarrases people and throws them out of shul, I assume he is some sort of
> gabbai, probably self appointed. I just wanted to clarify.
>
> Thank You.
>
> Daniel Lefton
> New York City, NY
>
>
>
> [ Distributed to the Avodah mailing list, digested version. ]
> [ To post: mail to avodah@aishdas.org ]
> [ For control requests: mail the word "help" to majordomo@aishdas.org ]
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5.5.2232.0">
<TITLE>RE: Avodah V2 #149</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ENOUGH!!!!!! THIS IS =
CHAIN OF LETTERS HAS GONE OVER SO MANY ISSURIM, I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO =
START!!!!!!</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">NO ONE CARES TO =
WHOM YOU WERE REFERRING!!!!! STOP IT ALREADY!!!! WE ALL =
KNOW WHAT THE GEMARA SAYS ABOUT SOMEONE WHO CALLS SOMEONE ELSE A =
MAMZER!!!!!!</FONT></P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Tue, 2 Feb =
1999 16:22:11 EST</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: =
LIPPYESQ@aol.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Re: Jewish =
Center</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> ></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> I just wanted to clarify, that in my calling the Gabbai =
of the JC a Mamzer, I</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> ></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> WAS NOT , repeat WAS NOT reffereing to Rabbi I. =
Weitzchner. I know Rabbi</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Weitzsner has the =
title of Executive Director of the JC, and I do not want to</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">confuse him with =
another person.I have never known Rabbi Weitzshner to be mean</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">in any way =
whatsoever. I do not know the name of the degenerate who =
publically</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">embarrases people =
and throws them out of shul, I assume he is some sort of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">gabbai, probably =
self appointed. I just wanted to clarify.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thank You.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Daniel Lefton</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">New York City, =
NY</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[ Distributed to the =
Avodah mailing list, digested =
version. =
]</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[ To post: mail to =
avodah@aishdas.org =
=
=
]</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[ For control =
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:10:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: TKD KDD
I was teaching the other day Makkos 6a, with the sugya of bonding eidim
together, for purposes of invalidation or hazama. Te Gemara and Tosafos,
read k'peshutan, say that witnesses are only bonded if they testify toch
k'dei dibbur. This seems difficult, based on reasonable time lapses - and
gaps within a witness's own statements.
We came, therefore, to the following conclusions, based on the Rambam and
other sources:
1. Within a statement or a formula, guidelines of TKD KDD need not be
adhered to - they kick in only at the end of a statement. For an OH
example, one may correct a Mashiv HaRuach error throughout the brocho of
Mechaye ha'Meisim, but a Melech HaKadosh error only TKD.
2. The TKD requirement for forming a "kat" only applies beyond the first
two witnesses cross-examined. The first two are a kat regardless, even if
their testimonies are cross-examined on different days.
Comments?
YGB
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:20:14 -0500
From: "Frenkel, Garry J." <Garry.J.Frenkel@ssa.gov>
Subject: My posting regarding MO
I would like to apologize to the group for my posting of 2/2 entitled Modern
Orthodoxy. It was the beginning of some thoughts, obviously unedited,
incomplete, not spell checked, and not very coherent. Having just switched
to Outlook 98 I accidentally sent it instead of saving it as draft as I had
intended. Pretty embarassing for my first posting to this list.
Gad Frenkel
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Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:29:39 -0800
From: Rabbi Shmuel Jablon <ShmuelAJ@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: sinat chinam
I am deeply concerned that a list which is supposed to be dedicated to
"high level Torah
discussions" seems to have fallen continually into the pit of sinat chinam.
It would seem
that many of our members are more interested in reading people out of the
Torah community
than in bringing people in. Though it is true that there have occasionally
been Gedolim
who have spoken negatively about others, it would seem that our true
Gedolei Yisrael have
been our finest role models not only in their lamdut and psak but in their
amazing ability to
work with (and show tremendous respect for) those whom they had tremendous
disagreements.
Even when Gedolim have "spoken out" against their fellow Gedolim, this does
not necessarily
mean that the rest of us have any right to be part of the argument.
I am sure that the members of this high level group know the tremendous
condemnation of those
who degrade others for their opinions...(e.g. see the Netziv's (zt"l) intro
to Emek Davar and much of Rav
A.Y. Kook's (zt"l) and Rav Tzvi Y Kook's (zt"l) writings) It would seem
that Hashem does not
look with favor upon our alleged "holy wars" and views it as the sinat
chinam that has so
harmed our People in the past.
Not that any individual cares whether this "out of town Rav" is part of
this list or not, but I
know that I will unsubscribe if this sinat chinam continues. It certainly
is not a part of the
Orthodox Judaism in which I believe or teach.
Shmuel Jablon
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:03:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V2 #149
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:49:12 -0500
> From: Isaiah Beilin <ibeilin@draper.com>
> Subject: Question about Rav Klein
>
> I have no intention of responding. It is just plain insulting to all.
===> If the person mentioned is indeed guilty of the accusations, then
there is a serious issue of chillul hashem in such conduct.
> This is not the way to start the issue
> again. It is not the business of this group to investigate and solve these
> kinds of problems. If this is true let the bate dinim do it. They got
> involved with R. Rackman and if they feel there is a problem then
> they will officially speak up.
===> I think that it IS important for individuals to be aware here, as
well. *if* (and I empahsize that *I* do not know one way or the other)
this posek was involved with "kiddushei ketana" or *if* he was involved
with an improper heter me'ah rabbonim, then there is very good reason for
people NOT to consult this person to ask sh'ailot. To wait for the "Batei
dinim" to speak up -- which can be a time consuming process means that
otehr innocent people can be hurt in the interim. Apparently, R. Beilin
is more concerned for the "honor" of the "one" as opposed to the potential
hurt of the many.
>
> Let us face it. If a man gets a heter meah rabonim improperly he is a
> bigamist who is "over an issur". Now you are choshed a godol batorah
> for causing a man to sin. Shame on this group. This is not the way benei
> torah should behave.
===> If a man is a bigamist, he is violating an issur d'rabbannan and his
children are OK -- however, the WIFE ends up an aguna... There appears to
be a blind spot that is SO concerned about a "godol batorah" but not
showing equal concern for plain JEWS.
I remind everyone that I simply ASKED if the one who protested was able to
confirm that this "gadol" is NOT involved in these very disturbing areas.
Seems to me to b a very simple yes/no. And, such a yes/no would clearly
resolve the issue for us. The unwillingness to answer leads one to
possibly suspect that there may very well be a basis for such
"accusations" but that it is more important to practice "tochecha" and
"protect" one person's honor REGARDLESS of the hurt and damage done to
others.
Again, I repeat the original request. Can we state with a reasonable
degree of certainty that the afore-mentioned gadol is not "involved" with
the issues of "kiddushei ketana" and/or "improper heter me'ah rabbanan
(where the woman is not allowed access to her get". Further, I am not
looking for a debate -- only a simple answer.
--Zvi
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:07:00 -0500
> From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
> Subject: Re: Question about Rav Klein
>
> Oh, I get it. In a Jewish witch hunt you are guilty until proven innocent.
> Rabbi Beilin defends R. Klein's good name and now R. Klein is guilty
> of some rumor until R. Beilin can prove him otherwise.
===> Sorry -- there is no witch hunt here. I *think* that the original
poster would not have made the claims agianst R. Klein without at least
SOME basis. If R. Beilin want to defend R. Klein's "good name", all he
has to do is state definitively that R. Klein was NOT involved in that
stuff. Please note that R. Beilin did NOT do that (at least, it was not
obvious to me).
After having attended sessions describing the misery of Agunot, I feel
very very nasty toward ANYONE involved in such activity that exacerbates
their plight. Maybe R. Beilin
(with all due respect) should spend some time talking to FRUM women
involved in organizations aiding agunot and/or talking to members of the
Beth Din of America (RCA/OU) that work hard to secure gittin for these
women so that he could see the real horror of a "heter me'ah rabbanan --
where the wife has no access to her get".
I would emphasize that I will be most delighted to learn that R. Klein is
NOT involved in such matters -- all I ask is for some clarity.
--Zvi
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:39 EST
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Subject: Re: David/Shaul
>> The VILNA GA'ON (Kol Eliyahu #203) writes that the difference between
>> David and Sha'ul did, in some way, depend on their Mazal.
Without the GR"A, isn;t this a gemera (I think) in Ta'anis? Anyone recall
offhand?
-Chaim
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:59:15 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Thought on Yisro - The Answers
Questions:
What 3 mitzvos (almost) immediately follow the Asseres haDibros?
What's their connection with the Asseres haDibros?
What's their connection with each other?
Answers:
These 3 mitzvos relate to the "big 3", so it is appropos to be adjacent to the
asseres hadibros...
Elohei Chessef - Avodo Zoro
Mizbach Adomo - Shefichas Domim (ki charbecho)
Lo saaleh bemaalos - Giluy Aroyos (asher lo sigole ervoscho olov)
Rich Wolpoe
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:33:00 -0500
From: "Clark, Eli" <clarke@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM>
Subject: Modern Orthodoxy and secular values
Garry Frenkel raises a serious question when he asks:
>What concerns me more than prctice however is values. While there
>may be much to gain form the knowledge of found in the secular world, its
>values often stand in direct oppositionto what we hold most dear. And while
>many of those values have crept into the right wing as well, this firting
>with modern culture ultimatelt creeps inot our value syetem corrupting ou
>children our families and our communities.
You are right, of course. But most things in life are neither all good
or all bad. This was true about ancient cultures as much as it is true
about modern culture. While Greek culture was pagan and hedonistic, it
also produced Plato and Aristotle. (Ideas from the latter's
Nichomachean Ethics appear in Rambam's Hilkhot De'ot.) Even the hated
Romans are given credit by the Gemara for building roads, aqueducts, and
the like.
Western culture is no different. Science has vastly improved our lives,
cured disease, raised living standards and increased our life
expectancy. But it has also brought with it scientism, hubris and a
denial of the spiritual in man.
Western literature expresses some of man's most enlightened ambitions:
striving for God, searching out the hand of God in nature, developing
man's moral core. But it also embraces the self-deification of man, the
glorification of pleasure and the exploitation of others.
Thus, to speak of "secular values" is to sweep together both the
desirable and the undesirable. Committed Jews can try to shut
themselves off from all outside influences. Or they can try to educate
themselves, their families, and their children to scrupulous adherence
to Halakha, while cultivating an appreciation for the Hokhma ba-Goyim,
in Arnold's famous phrase "the best that has been thought and said in
the world."
Put another way, while secular culture features MTV and Madonna, it also
includes Mozart, Monet and Montesquieu. Children should not be
consuming filth, but I think a child can learn about middot and proper
behavior from, say, Dahl's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or
Charlotte's Web.
I agree that corruption can creep in. But the dangers of corruption
have been around for a long time. For all that we live in a permissive
society today, the same problems existed in days of yore. One can find
halakhic authorities from 500 years ago dealing with cases of adultery
in the Jewish community. Of course, modern society has discarded the
canons of modesty; and this requires a heightened vigilance. But not
secesion. The genius of the halakhic system is that it is equipped to
respond to 20th century challenges no less than 12th century challenges.
I think it an affront to Torah to say otherwise.
Moreover, it seems that those Jewish communities that do shut themselves
off from the outside world do not protect themselves from corruption.
Sadly, I was reminded of this by a recent news item regarding the theft
of millions of dollars of federal money by members of a closed-off Torah
community.
Certainly, the path of integration is not suited for everyone. And, as
with all paths, it is fraught with dangers. But for one who keeps Torah
as the ner le-raglo, the way is clear.
Kol tuv,
Eli Clark
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:24:00 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Just what is Torah Umada?
I'll concede that there is no one definition. There are at least 2 major models
discussed at YU.
1) Model #1 Give the student A yeshivish learning in the morning and a real
college education in the afternoon, and after 4 years let him synthesize. This
allowed for the liberal arts college to be realitvely free academecially (even
teach apikorsus, etc.) The Yeshiva side allowed for many Agudist Roshei Yeshiva
who gave a more Chareidi viewpoint.
2) Model #2. Have the instructors themselves teach, demonstrate, and practice
synthesis.
To the best of my knowledge, #2 has never been the dominant model at YU, just
perhaps idealized. The more compartmentalized Model #1 has largely prevaled.
If Rabbi Dr. X used different titles, it might be because he followed model #1.
My wife uses her maiden name at work and her married name at home. So what does
that prove?
Regards,
Rich Wolpoe
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:01:27 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Tefillo Betzibbur
As I recall an oseik betzorchei hatzibbur is pottur from Tefillo betizubbr,
might even be pottur from Tefillo but no shema.
It seems likely that the aforementioned rebbes and the Rav (and others) could
fall into this category.
Regards,
Rich Wolpoe
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:59:03 -0500
From: "Pechman, Abraham" <APechman@mwellp.com>
Subject: RE: Tefillo Betzibbur
> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com [mailto:richard_wolpoe@ibi.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:01 PM
> To: avodah@aishdas.org
> Subject: Tefillo Betzibbur
>
>
> As I recall an oseik betzorchei hatzibbur is pottur from
> Tefillo betizubbr,
> might even be pottur from Tefillo but no shema.
>
> It seems likely that the aforementioned rebbes and the Rav
> (and others) could
> fall into this category.
>
> Regards,
> Rich Wolpoe
>
Wouldn't they have to be occupied b'tzorchei tzibbur during the time the
tzibbur is davening in order to use this ptur?
Avi Pechman
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:59 -0500
From: "Noah Witty" <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Calling someone a "mamzer" (even a gabbai)
Concerning calling one a "mamzer": see Kidushin 28a; tosfos ad loc.;
Teshuvos Rabbi Yosef HaLevi ibn Migash; OC 606, Magen Avraham n. 6. I don't
have the set on hand, but Chasam Sofer on OC sounds like he addresses the
issue in his responsa and **may** be lenient in the case before our group.
Did Daniel Lefton complain to Rabbi Schechter? Did he rebuke the gabbai?
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:06:18 -0500
From: "Noah Witty" <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Calling one a "mamzer"-#2
I inadvertently omitted full cite to R"Y Migash: in edition of Simcha
Chasida editor, it is #94.
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:44:47 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Daily Lift #252
Today's message from RAv Pliskin. Hameivin yovin
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Daily Lift #252
Author: <Daily-Lift@Aish.Edu> at Tcpgate
Date: 2/3/99 1:24 PM
DAILY LIFT #252
Hate the evil acts of the wicked, but do not hate the people
themselves. Every person is worthy of being cherished by virtue of
being created in the image of the Almighty. Therefore we cannot
hate another person. Rather, our love for the Almighty should be so
deeply internalized, that from this love we hate evil deeds. By hating
only evil actions, you elevate yourself because you are increasing
your love for the Almighty.
The next time you see someone do something evil, try to distinguish
between hatred of the act and hatred of the person.
(see Rabbi Yechezkail Levenstein - Ohr Yechezkail, Midos, p.145;
Rabbi Pliskin's "Consulting the Wise")
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:18:43 -0500
From: Isaiah Beilin <ibeilin@draper.com>
Subject: Rav Klein
You seem to want to uncover the truth for the "National Enquirer"
section of the Aishdas group. I read earlier that this is what they do
in a Kotzker Bet Hamedrash. You do not need my heter. Who am I to stop
you? So, please do not mention my name any more when you post something.
I noticed that there are a few people from Bate dinim subscribing. Discuss
it
with them. Also, there are other organizations such as the Agudas Rabonim,
RCA, Igud etc. who may help you. You may also look up Rav Klein's number
and call it. Make an appointment and verify it. After all, you should
confront him. Surely, you have to pasul a person "befonov".
When you find out the facts then I am sure the group will be thrilled
to hear your findings. I probably will unsubscribe by then. But, I am
positive you will make sure I know.
But, please stop addressing me. I am not the Almighty. It is to him
you will please deal with.
At 12:03 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:49:12 -0500
>> From: Isaiah Beilin <ibeilin@draper.com>
>> Subject: Question about Rav Klein
>>
>> I have no intention of responding. It is just plain insulting to all.
>
>===> If the person mentioned is indeed guilty of the accusations, then
>there is a serious issue of chillul hashem in such conduct.
>
>
>> This is not the way to start the issue
>> again. It is not the business of this group to investigate and solve
these
>> kinds of problems. If this is true let the bate dinim do it. They got
>> involved with R. Rackman and if they feel there is a problem then
>> they will officially speak up.
>
>===> I think that it IS important for individuals to be aware here, as
>well. *if* (and I empahsize that *I* do not know one way or the other)
>this posek was involved with "kiddushei ketana" or *if* he was involved
>with an improper heter me'ah rabbonim, then there is very good reason for
>people NOT to consult this person to ask sh'ailot. To wait for the "Batei
>dinim" to speak up -- which can be a time consuming process means that
>otehr innocent people can be hurt in the interim. Apparently, R. Beilin
>is more concerned for the "honor" of the "one" as opposed to the potential
>hurt of the many.
>
>
>
>>
>> Let us face it. If a man gets a heter meah rabonim improperly he is a
>> bigamist who is "over an issur". Now you are choshed a godol batorah
>> for causing a man to sin. Shame on this group. This is not the way benei
>> torah should behave.
>
>===> If a man is a bigamist, he is violating an issur d'rabbannan and his
>children are OK -- however, the WIFE ends up an aguna... There appears to
>be a blind spot that is SO concerned about a "godol batorah" but not
>showing equal concern for plain JEWS.
>
>I remind everyone that I simply ASKED if the one who protested was able to
>confirm that this "gadol" is NOT involved in these very disturbing areas.
>Seems to me to b a very simple yes/no. And, such a yes/no would clearly
>resolve the issue for us. The unwillingness to answer leads one to
>possibly suspect that there may very well be a basis for such
>"accusations" but that it is more important to practice "tochecha" and
>"protect" one person's honor REGARDLESS of the hurt and damage done to
>others.
>
>Again, I repeat the original request. Can we state with a reasonable
>degree of certainty that the afore-mentioned gadol is not "involved" with
>the issues of "kiddushei ketana" and/or "improper heter me'ah rabbanan
>(where the woman is not allowed access to her get". Further, I am not
>looking for a debate -- only a simple answer.
>
>
>--Zvi
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:07:00 -0500
>> From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
>> Subject: Re: Question about Rav Klein
>>
>> Oh, I get it. In a Jewish witch hunt you are guilty until proven innocent.
>> Rabbi Beilin defends R. Klein's good name and now R. Klein is guilty
>> of some rumor until R. Beilin can prove him otherwise.
>
>===> Sorry -- there is no witch hunt here. I *think* that the original
>poster would not have made the claims agianst R. Klein without at least
>SOME basis. If R. Beilin want to defend R. Klein's "good name", all he
>has to do is state definitively that R. Klein was NOT involved in that
>stuff. Please note that R. Beilin did NOT do that (at least, it was not
>obvious to me).
>After having attended sessions describing the misery of Agunot, I feel
>very very nasty toward ANYONE involved in such activity that exacerbates
>their plight. Maybe R. Beilin
>(with all due respect) should spend some time talking to FRUM women
>involved in organizations aiding agunot and/or talking to members of the
>Beth Din of America (RCA/OU) that work hard to secure gittin for these
>women so that he could see the real horror of a "heter me'ah rabbanan --
>where the wife has no access to her get".
>
>I would emphasize that I will be most delighted to learn that R. Klein is
>NOT involved in such matters -- all I ask is for some clarity.
>--Zvi
>
Go to top.
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:42:31 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Subject: Lerning all night
>> The Modzitzer Rebbe ZT'L, that he used to stand by a
shtender and learn B'Kol Ram all night until he was so exhausted that he
was out of strength, normally very close to morning. He would then fall
asleep until late in the morning, after all of the minyanim <<
R. Meir Berglass one gave a dvar Torah at a melave malko as follows:
There are 2 shitos, one is to learn all night and miss minyan the other to go to
bed on time and get up for minyon.
Says the Possuk
Rabbos machshovos b'leiv ish (i.e. differing opnions on this matter)
V'atzas Hashem Hi (and Hashem's advice is):
TOKUM! (i.e get up for minyan!)
Cute, no?
Rich Wolpoe
Go to top.
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