Avodah Mailing List

Volume 02 : Number 077

Saturday, December 12 1998

• Hillul Hashem -- Jews
• Ibn Ezra's vocation
• acronyms and kollel
• AID -- mamzer
• Re: acronyms and kollel
• milsa d'bedichusa, Chanuka, retzicha thorugh gerama for a B"N?
• Avos - Haamidu Talmiddim Harbei
• Re: Paying for Torah
• Re: Teaching NEZIKIN to kids
• Re: chanuka

 RYGB writes:

>Remember, we are not discussing the world, or Western media, but the bulk
>of Jews. So, I limit consideration and recast your case: If the bulk of
>the Jewish world woulld be put off by Orthodox strong-arm tactics, should
>we refrain from performing this mitzva?

I am sorry if my reference to Western media suggested to you that I was
thinking about the world at large as opposed to the Jewish world at
large.  I did not forget that, with respect to hillul Hashem, we are
discussing Jews, not goyim (generally).  But it seems to me that the
"bulk of the Jewish world" forms its opinion of the Orthodox community
based on our portrayal in the Western media.  This is certainly the case
with respect to the image of the mitnahalim in Israel, as well as the
image of the haredim.

Kol tuv,

Eli Clark

Josj Backon writes:

>I saw this (that the Ibn Ezra was a physician) in the book by Krausz, "Short
>Digest of Jewish Literature in the Middle Ages" which has the quote '(the
>Ibn Ezra) earned his meagre livlihood as a physician'.

Does Krausz provide a source for this?  The conventional view, I think,
is that he scraped out a living as an itinerant teacher.

Kol tuv,

Eli Clark

When discussing R. Yonasan Eibschitz and R. Yaakov Emden the acronym
RYE can be obscure.

  With regard to the hypothetical kollelnick and the Rambam, I've been
too lazy to look up precise sources, but I'll quote approximately.  Most
of the posters seem to be ignoring the Rambam's opinion of how to get to
olam haba.

1.  Most of what people learn in kollel is not Talmud Torah according to
the Rambam (letter to Ibn Aknin about setting up a yeshiva in Bagdad,
where he says that Talmudic dialectics is not Talmud Torah).

2.  According to the Rambam most of Talmud Torah leads only indirectly
to olam haba (Yesodei HaTorah end of Chapter 4 for the assertion, Tshuva
chapter 9 for the mechanism).

3.  That part of Talmud Torah which does lead directly to Olam haba is
the study of disembodied intelligences (Yesodei HaTorah chapter 2 or 3 -
the definition of the human soul).

4.  The study of disembodied intelligences can be performed only by
someone who has (almost) perfected himself morally and intellectually
(shemona prakim chapter 7 or 8 - the one about veils).

For the Rambam our hypothetical kollelnik is incapable of studying
disembodied intelligences.  His acceptance of charity when he could earn
a living is clear evidence that he has not (almost) perfected himself
morally.  So he wouldn't be allowed into olam haba on the grounds that
he studied the wrong things.

David Riceman

R YGB writes:

>It seems the teshuva is not in the Minchas Shlomo but is in
>Noam vol. 1 (1958). RSZA there says that the product of AI between a Jew
>who is not her husband and an Eishes Ish is a Safek Mamzer.

According to a footnote in my article, the following posekim hold that
AID of an eshet ish with a Jewish donor would produce a vaday mamzer:

R. YL Tzirelson, R. S Woszner, R. M Kirschenbaum, R. DM Krauser, R. O
Hadaya. R. A Lurie and R. EJ Waldenberg.

The following hold that no mamzer is produced:

Maharsham, R. A Walkin, R. MJ Breisch, R.YY  Weinberg, R. O Yosef, R. Y
Baumol, R. BZ Uziel and, of course, R. M Feinstein.

Kol tuv,

Eli

There were, actually, several other inaccuracies in my hypothetical, i.e.,
the Rambam does not hold of gilgul, so the BD shel M would not say "Better
luck next time," and, there would be no seat on the Mizrach, since the
Rambam holds that OH is not corporeal.

Speaking of RYE (x2), I would like to hear R' David R's opinion on the
matter.

Furthermore, since we would all like to get to OH lefi shittas ha'Rambam,
could you pleasse teach us a little bit more about disembodied
intelligences?

 

On Mon, 27 Aug 1956, David Riceman wrote:

> When discussing R. Yonasan Eibschitz and R. Yaakov Emden the acronym
> RYE can be obscure.
> 
>   With regard to the hypothetical kollelnick and the Rambam, I've been
> too lazy to look up precise sources, but I'll quote approximately.  Most
> of the posters seem to be ignoring the Rambam's opinion of how to get to
> olam haba.
> 
> 1.  Most of what people learn in kollel is not Talmud Torah according to
> the Rambam (letter to Ibn Aknin about setting up a yeshiva in Bagdad,
> where he says that Talmudic dialectics is not Talmud Torah).
> 
> 2.  According to the Rambam most of Talmud Torah leads only indirectly
> to olam haba (Yesodei HaTorah end of Chapter 4 for the assertion, Tshuva
> chapter 9 for the mechanism).
> 
> 3.  That part of Talmud Torah which does lead directly to Olam haba is
> the study of disembodied intelligences (Yesodei HaTorah chapter 2 or 3 -
> the definition of the human soul).
> 
> 4.  The study of disembodied intelligences can be performed only by
> someone who has (almost) perfected himself morally and intellectually
> (shemona prakim chapter 7 or 8 - the one about veils).
> 
> For the Rambam our hypothetical kollelnik is incapable of studying
> disembodied intelligences.  His acceptance of charity when he could earn
> a living is clear evidence that he has not (almost) perfected himself
> morally.  So he wouldn't be allowed into olam haba on the grounds that
> he studied the wrong things.
> 
> David Riceman
> 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

See hakdamah of Pnei Yehoshua to Mes. Ketubot who writes that 'milsa
d'bdichusa' means either a discussion of aggadita, or a pilpul said l'chaded
(as Pnei Yehoshua then delivers) - intellectual enjoyment - not jokes.

On that note, I always thought the Chashmonaim won on 25 Kislav hence Chanu
K"H.  However... Meiri writes that the victory occured on 24 Kislev.  The Ohr
Gadol (Yoma perek 7) writes that this actually fits better acc. to most
Rishonim who hold hadlakat hamenorah took place bein ha-arbayim - if the
victory only occured on the 25th that would mean the first hadlakah was on the
26th.  (Yes, you could be doche that  the first day is not a celebration of
the pach but of the milchama, but then you have to explain why we do a
hadlakah to commemorate that  Derech agav, it does sound from Neiros Halalu
that we are doing the hadlakah as a commemoration of the milchama).   The
Rambam, who says the victory occured on the 25th, works l'shitaso (Temidim
3:12, see KS"M for list of Rishonim who are cholek) that hadlakas hamenorah
was done b'yom.  The Ohr Gadol continues the pilpul to see if this is correct,
but its something to think about.

Why did the brothers of Yosef think it better to kill him through a gerama (as
Ramban learns on 'v'yisnaklu oso l'hamito') - it's still a violation of
retzicha, and I'm not sure it makes any difference for a B"N anyway.

Good Shabbos to all!

-Chaim 

I once heard over the following:

After Golus Bovel, Anshei Knesses Gdolo wanted to ensure Torah's Survival by 
"opening it up to the masses".  That before hand Torah (or specifically Torah 
sheb'al Peh) was the limited purview of the elite (leviim etc.).

Later on , the AKG were afraid that Torah could be vulernable if another 
persecution came. 

Does any one out there know of a source for this idea?

Regards,
Rich Wolpoe

In a message dated 98-12-10 14:04:23 EST, you write:

<< 
 Rav Moshe concludes, "Therefore it is a simple and unequivocal din that has
been
 accepted in all generations whether from Din or takanas of Ais La'asos that
it is
 permitted to study, teach and be a Rav and posek  and be supported by
payments or
 salary and one should not refrain even as midas chassidus. AND I SAY THAT
THOSE
 WHO WISH TO BE FRUM AND FOLLOW THE RULING OF THE RAMBAM - THIS IS THE ADVICE
OF
 THE YETZER HARAH...
 
                                                       Daniel Eidensohn
  >>
Are there any other examples of  'unattributed' ait laasot?
Is it the advice of the Yetzer Harah for one with an unusual talent to work
one hour a week to  support his family and learn the rest of the week rather
than learn that one additional hour and take pay for it?

Shabbat shalom
Joel Rich

Shavua Tov.

Someone (R. Frimer ? recently queried the list re: a booklet or instructional
pamphlet to help kids learn Nezikin. Kids in shul told me that they saw a
videotape in Hebrew on Perek SHNAIM OCHAZIN. I just found out that this
tape is available from Kol Ami bookstore in NYC for $35.

Josh

Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Joel Margolies wrote:
>
> > I also heard mipi HaShmua that Rav Yonason Saks (of Passaic)  told a
> > member of his kehilla who was going to be away the whole day until late
> > to light when he got home late at night.
>
> You arre not addressing the bracha issue. To the best of my recollection,
> a person who lights so late at night that no one will see the candles
> beside himself does not make a brocho, nor does one who lights in a house
> where he is only eating and not sleeping. The "birchas ha'ro'eh" of
> "She'asah Nissim," however, may have different parameters.

Rav Moshe disagrees with the above which is the view of the Magen Avraham.
Igros Moshe O.H. IV. #105.7 page 194-196. At the end he says "The Ri the Rosh
and the Rema 672:2,...one is obligated to light even if there is only a
single person in the place with a Beracha because persumei nisa is not
required...and according to the Mechaber, Ri, Rosh, Rema that today when we
light inside and the time is the entire night...it is possible to light even
he is the sole individual in that place even if the members of the family are
already sleeping when he gets home even with a Beracha..not like the Magen
Avraham...
but the words of the Magen Avraham are astounding and one is required to
light with a beracha even when the family is sleeping and even if he there
alone by himself and even if he the only one in the whole city...This is also
brought by the Mishna Berura [see Shaar HaTziyun 672:17 who says that this
the accepted practice] and one must do it this way.."

                                              Daniel Eidensohn

p.s regarding the original question look at Y.D. III 14.5 page 235

********************


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